PR Approval Chance 2023

[olivia909]

Hi,

Thinking of applying PR soon, someone encouraged me to apply after getting 6 months salary slips, but others told me that S Pass holders will likely be harder to get PR since my income is low..

Nationality: Malaysia
Race: Chinese
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Applied for: Myself (Single)
Education: Bachelor of Science from UK
Time in SG: 6 months
Occupation: R&D Engineer
Basic Salary: ~S$4500
Pass level: S Pass
Background: Previously working similar R&D positions in Malaysia for 3 years

Thank you for helping!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Easy even with S pass as a young degreed female Malaysian Chinese. However, take note that there is a very distinct probability of being rejected if you apply after only being employed in Sg for 6 or 7 months. It's a safer bet to wait until your S pass has been renewed once before applying (e.g., 24 consecutive months of employment, even if you are of the chosen race/country. However, if rejection will have no impact on your psyche then go ahead and donate your $100 to the Sg Government. They will gladly take it. And who knows, you 'might' get lucky....but please, don't hold your breath. It's a rare happenstance, even for M'sian Chinese. (Unless you are a PhD holding neurosurgeon or rocket scientist).

[deepthemd]

Hi All

Seeking your thoughts on my chances.

Female Indian
Age: 31
Applying for: Myself (Single)
Education: Masters from local uni NTU
Time in SG: 8 years
Occupation: Sustainability Engineer
Salary: 81k+ pa on EP
Background:
One time rejected after 1 yr pending in 2022. will be applying only around 24 months mark.

Feel free to be brutal on my chances, the pros and cons and what can be improved . Look forward to your feedback. Thank you !

[olivia909]

Easy even with S pass as a young degreed female Malaysian Chinese. However, take note that there is a very distinct probability of being rejected if you apply after only being employed in Sg for 6 or 7 months. It's a safer bet to wait until your S pass has been renewed once before applying (e.g., 24 consecutive months of employment, even if you are of the chosen race/country. However, if rejection will have no impact on your psyche then go ahead and donate your $100 to the Sg Government. They will gladly take it. And who knows, you 'might' get lucky....but please, don't hold your breath. It's a rare happenstance, even for M'sian Chinese. (Unless you are a PhD holding neurosurgeon or rocket scientist).

Thank you for your information and replies!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Hi All

Seeking your thoughts on my chances.

Female Indian
Age: 31
Applying for: Myself (Single)
Education: Masters from local uni NTU
Time in SG: 8 years
Occupation: Sustainability Engineer
Salary: 81k+ pa on EP
Background:
One time rejected after 1 yr pending in 2022. will be applying only around 24 months mark.

Feel free to be brutal on my chances, the pros and cons and what can be improved . Look forward to your feedback. Thank you !

I guess the key that is missing is how long have you been employed in Singapore? I'm guessing the max is maybe 4 years or less?

[deepthemd]

Apologies for missing this out, it has been 6 years of employment in SG now

[sundaymorningstaple]

About the only thing you can do is, as noted, wait 24 months from rejection and try again, but in the meantime try to gain Promotion and/or salary (not just cola but a substantial amount) Your biggest problem is due to ethnicity and the huge number of your countrymen/women all vying for the same thin slice of the annual PR or SGC cake. You have to compete with all your own countrymen and therein often lies the problem. Integration shouldn't be too much of a problem but I don't know the MS class ethnicity/origin makeup percentages. But if your circle of friends are mostly Indian nationals you need to be seen actually actively trying to integrate with the local populace.

Of course there is the other route but not one that I am fond of but it is there and it sometime works (Marry a Singaporean - pretty good for obtaining PR, Have at least one child to apply for SGC (boy child works best but cannot advise on how to make that happen).

[deepthemd]

Thanks for that! Speaking of integration, how does one document their integration tangibly on an application?

While one can have several local friends, know Singlish and be rather indistinguishable from a local or Malaysian, I find it difficult to demonstrate said integration on paper without looking desperate (since fellow countrymen have utilised this “integration” route for years)

E.g
- I got an HSK level 3 certificate in Chinese and can understand Hokkien dialect to an extent
- I have many friends who are locals and most of them have assumed I’m Singaporean until I actually told them otherwise

but one can’t quite document these on an application (unless you get testimonies which I think would just look desperate to ICA)

[sundaymorningstaple]

Integration isn't something that can be 'documented'. However, ICA has 100's if not 1000's of field agents that you wouldn't know from adam as they don't wear uniforms and are locals and mixed easily in the field. If your file is assigned to caseworker, they may assign it to one of their field agents to suss out over a period of time. This is easy to do. They will compile their finding and opinions, e.g., appearance of genuine or forced interaction, like the contributions debacle that your countrymen completely disabled by using it and as soon as they got PR that was it, didn't see them anymore. It became rather obvious after a time that it was all a ruse and not an altruistic gesture on the part of the person. It was only for them gaining something as opposed to them helping others from the heart. Field agents have no distinguishing characteristics but are pretty good judges of character.

Oh, and you are correct, testimonials are a waste of time and energy. They amount to about as much help as a cover letter which is nothing more that an applicant trying to blow smoke where there is none. That's why they don't accept cover letters either. Good example with your reference to your ability with Mandarin and more so Hokkien. If you were in a kopitiam or some such and there was a table full of locals sit down behind you and order their food, you would think nothing of it. However as everybody speaks loudly here, especially in open eating houses. Should an agent that was in that crowd overhear you genuinely & comfortably conversing in either Mandarin or Hokkien with friends or colleagues it is impressive to anybody who might happen to know you are not local. This is an honest attempt at integration and doesn't go unnoticed. It's more a state of mind.

I've always been in awe of my wife, who is a local Tamil, as she fluently speaks Tamil, Malay & English and can be in mixed company and hear multiple conversations at the table and reply instantaneously to each speaking in whichever of the 3 languages they are speaking and most comfortable in. I have all I can do with just my farmboy English.

Hang in there, work on a promotion or major salary band elevation and continue with integration.
24 months from rejection, reapply. Don't jump the gun, it tends to give ICA the idea that you are desperate as opposed to desirous.

Keep us posted on how you go.

[deepthemd]

Thanks a lot @sundaymorningstaple for that informative response. I speak Tamil, hope the integration does some good in front of ICA. Meanwhile will keep working on upgrading and keep this forum posted!

[Lisafuller]

Thanks for that! Speaking of integration, how does one document their integration tangibly on an application?

While one can have several local friends, know Singlish and be rather indistinguishable from a local or Malaysian, I find it difficult to demonstrate said integration on paper without looking desperate (since fellow countrymen have utilised this “integration” route for years)

E.g
- I got an HSK level 3 certificate in Chinese and can understand Hokkien dialect to an extent
- I have many friends who are locals and most of them have assumed I’m Singaporean until I actually told them otherwise

but one can’t quite document these on an application (unless you get testimonies which I think would just look desperate to ICA)

Integration is almost impossible to prove on paper. The easiest way to do this is to marry a local spouse and have kids, but don't force it of course.

[Lisafuller]

Integration isn't something that can be 'documented'. However, ICA has 100's if not 1000's of field agents that you wouldn't know from adam as they don't wear uniforms and are locals and mixed easily in the field. If your file is assigned to caseworker, they may assign it to one of their field agents to suss out over a period of time. This is easy to do. They will compile their finding and opinions, e.g., appearance of genuine or forced interaction, like the contributions debacle that your countrymen completely disabled by using it and as soon as they got PR that was it, didn't see them anymore. It became rather obvious after a time that it was all a ruse and not an altruistic gesture on the part of the person. It was only for them gaining something as opposed to them helping others from the heart. Field agents have no distinguishing characteristics but are pretty good judges of character.

Oh, and you are correct, testimonials are a waste of time and energy. They amount to about as much help as a cover letter which is nothing more that an applicant trying to blow smoke where there is none. That's why they don't accept cover letters either. Good example with your reference to your ability with Mandarin and more so Hokkien. If you were in a kopitiam or some such and there was a table full of locals sit down behind you and order their food, you would think nothing of it. However as everybody speaks loudly here, especially in open eating houses. Should an agent that was in that crowd overhear you genuinely & comfortably conversing in either Mandarin or Hokkien with friends or colleagues it is impressive to anybody who might happen to know you are not local. This is an honest attempt at integration and doesn't go unnoticed. It's more a state of mind.

I've always been in awe of my wife, who is a local Tamil, as she fluently speaks Tamil, Malay & English and can be in mixed company and hear multiple conversations at the table and reply instantaneously to each speaking in whichever of the 3 languages they are speaking and most comfortable in. I have all I can do with just my farmboy English.

Hang in there, work on a promotion or major salary band elevation and continue with integration.
24 months from rejection, reapply. Don't jump the gun, it tends to give ICA the idea that you are desperate as opposed to desirous.

Keep us posted on how you go.

Do they really do this? Sounds a bit too much like the stuff of movies.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I've been to enough audits by the IRS in the US that I could regal you with some real stuff of movies that the agents there used to pull. I used to be the District Director for H & R Block in Washington DC during the "long hot summer" when the blacks tried to burn down DC (1970's). Been to the offices of the IRS in Bailey's Crossroads in Virginia literally hundreds of times.

[Lisafuller]

Sounds intense, I always assumed they did a (thorough) remote investigation and evaluation.

[malcontent]

I've been to enough audits by the IRS in the US that I could regal you with some real stuff of movies that the agents there used to pull. I used to be the District Director for H & R Block in Washington DC during the "long hot summer" when the blacks tried to burn down DC (1970's). Been to the offices of the IRS in Bailey's Crossroads in Virginia literally hundreds of times.

One thing I heard from people attending an IRS talk here once is that the chance of getting audited is high the first year you return back to the US, any truth to that?