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German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

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German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby beagene » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 4:22 am

Good morning to all,

Have been surfing the last hour or two and am already halfway through the 75 pages of informative threads in this subforum and have learnt a great deal more. Unfortunately I was unable to find a similar position with which I am in hence the request for help with regards to my current situation. Will provide as much information as below in order for the gurus to assist:-

Me, Husband
Age: 34 this year
Education: O Levels
Pay: 72k/year basic excluding com/bonus
Chinese Singaporean Citizen

Wife
Age: 26 this year
Education: Masters in Economics
Caucasian German Citizen

We were married in Singapore in June of this year and she will be moving over end Oct. We will be making our submission for application of LTVP online as soon as she touches down with the disembarkation card. My question would be how good will our chances be for obtaining a LTVP, or even a LTVP+ for her, all factors considered? Not sure if her nationality will work against her? and for PR application wise, do I understand it correctly that 2-3 years after marriage would be a good time to apply?

Thank you all in advance for time taken out to address my concerns.

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 7:41 am

I think your chances on all accounts are good.
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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 1:32 pm

I concur. At least up to getting the LTVP. I reckon it may still take you upwards to get the LTVP+. PR after three years? Possibly. Would depend on how much damage is done to the PAP in the next couple of weeks. :-k

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Sep 2015 6:42 pm

Not entirely dissimilar (though reversed roles) to my wife and I, at the time of our first LTVP application.

In our case, when you file the application, if necessary the SVP is extended in order that the entire process can be seen through. So there might be little reason to submit it the very day she lands. I'd take a little time for her to unpack, check she has all her dox in hand etc., photocopies, passport pix, etc etc. Then you can proceed knowing you're giving it your absolute best shot. Presumably you have downloaded the forms, and she already knows she has every document required? It's waaay easier sorting this out before she arrives, than later on realising she needs original or copy dox from back home.

One thing you don't mention that perhaps counts is any employment history she has. If they see she has some experience, might not be sitting around twiddling her thumbs, and better yet can perhaps bring talents, skills and experience to SGs workplace then that is only to your advantage.

- No I don't see being EU 'counting against her'. There is probably some benefit in being of Chinese genes, so in that way being DE/EU is a relative disadvantage, but there's nothing you can do about that, and IMHO it is not something to concern yourself about.

On the LTVP application form these days there is a simple tick-box that reads (roughly) 'Would you like your application to additionally be considered for an LTVP+'. I don't see any harm in ticking it. Maybe they won't grant the '+' this time, who knows, perhaps they'll want to see how you cope on one income. But if so, as and when you come to renew it I'd tick it again. ... Maybe you'll get the '+' first time, it's impossible to say.

p.s. PR is another matter, and the rules/sands shift on it the whole time. I'd focus on getting the LTVP, the +, then later PR...

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby beagene » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 2:34 pm

Dear all,

Thank you for your valuable insights, very much appreciated. To add on:-

- All documents have been prepared and sorted out as per the requirements stated on the website.
- She is still in the employment of an MNC in Germany. Prior appointment was at a major bank. Should I include that in the submissions of documents? last pay slip etc?

we will be ticking the '+' box for sure as she does not wanna sit around idle at home. Problem is, a month or 2 prior to today, we have been sending out resumes for jobs but to no avail. I am wondering is the workforce climate towards foreigners that cold now?

Should I include details of a property that I own which generates passive income? Will that help?


Cheers guys!

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 2:50 pm

This is the run up to the General Election (Polling Day is on the 11th). Depending on election results, the FT (foreign talent) market may ebb or flow. It's been ebbing for a couple of years now since the last GE in 2011 where the ruling party got stung (not badly, but where they were caught with their pants down, so to speak. Things haven't been so good for new FT coming to Singapore and renewals, for the most part of the EP range has not been too bad, but for the S pass holders it's been pretty dismal as lots of quotas were cut drastically. So all are in a wait & see mode at the moment.

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 2:53 pm

It could take up to 6 months to find a position, suitable or not (and she may feel like she's been slapped in the face at the salary being offered (especially when they find out she's on a LTVP+). She will need a lot of patience and support from you as it will tend to play hard on the psychic of the job seeker. Especially one who has left a decent position to come here.

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby beagene » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 3:50 pm

Judging from the responses from the prospective employers (or lack of), we are very prepared for the worst in terms of employment. Does not affect livelihood but do not want to be idle. Support/patience will definitely be there. Seems like companies are leveraging on the policies by the ruling party to get the best bang for their buck (or simply to be cheapskate). Demand and supply at its best/ugliest.

Was at the WP rally last night actually and the support for them is unwavering. I forsee another beating to be suffered by the ruling party but by how much is still in the air.

A question and I hoped I understood correctly from the numerous threads, if she is granted LTVP status, she is still allowed to go for interviews and in the event that a company do offer her a position, the EP will replace the LTVP without any hassle?

Thanks once again guys!

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 4:42 pm

beagene wrote:A question and I hoped I understood correctly from the numerous threads, if she is granted LTVP status, she is still allowed to go for interviews and in the event that a company do offer her a position, the EP will replace the LTVP without any hassle?

Thanks once again guys!


Correct. Or if you get the LTVP+ they can put her on a Letter of Consent, although without any Foreign Worker levies on EP holders, it's a moot point. However, if she is being offered a position for an EP, it must be, in the MOM's eyes, a position not easily filled by a local. Therefore, the LoC might be the only way to position her to enable employment. There are gates and trap doors everywhere today. But as she doesn't have to worry about the breadwinner losing their EP she is much better placed to successfully find a position.

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby JR8 » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 6:21 pm

beagene wrote:To add on:-
- All documents have been prepared and sorted out as per the requirements stated on the website.

Excellent. I learned the hard way, arriving and having no hard-copy records to evidence my by then archaic (and IMO at that time, irrelevant) qualifications.

beagene wrote:- She is still in the employment of an MNC in Germany. Prior appointment was at a major bank. Should I include that in the submissions of documents? last pay slip etc?


Yes, absolutely, without question. IIRC this is either specifically requested on the forms, or there is a 'white space' box to enter such 'additional information'. Anything you can add that makes her more desirable in ICAs/MOMs eyes will only be of benefit to her. Being qualified and experienced to attain roles such as you mention will help set her application apart. Payslips or salary credit entries on bank statements, would probably serve an equal purpose in this regard.

My approach was to detail everything, and then evidence it too with an attachment. In some ways you cannot provide too much information of this kind. The caveat is not to overdo it too much and so irritate the officer handling the case... her '50M swimming award, aged 10', and so on.

beagene wrote:we will be ticking the '+' box for sure as she does not wanna sit around idle at home. Problem is, a month or 2 prior to today, we have been sending out resumes for jobs but to no avail. I am wondering is the workforce climate towards foreigners that cold now?
Should I include details of a property that I own which generates passive income? Will that help?
Cheers guys!


Being a 'trailing spouse' is a curious thing. Some arrive in SG and imagine they can happily sit by the pool all day, and that's what they happily do. Others need to have a sense of personal achievement and fulfilment, which translates into a job, or some 'side-line' even as basic as setting up an EBay sellers account. Some arrive, spend a month by the pool, then realise the sloth is slowly eating them up inside. Like early retirement perhaps, it's often not what you expect of it, you need to work (hard) to fill the gaps in your self-worth that successful employment provided. I know I have tried to describe this here before (some while ago now).

re: jobhunting.
As a rule of thumb, she won't get any interviews until she is physically in SG. So getting no replies is completely expected, and you mustn't take it at all negatively. Secondly, in SG if she wants to work she has two routes, qualify on her own merits for an EP (which the employer applies for), or get an LTVP+ which allows her to be employed outside an employers 'foreigner visa quotas' (that is how I recall it). One thing of note re: an LTVP+ is that it is tied to your EP. So, if you lost your job, then her ability to work is lost too. --- Perhaps these kind of considerations are a little premature at this stage. I'd focus on getting to SG, with all the possible documentation you might need in future.

There has been a lot of noise recently from the locals along the lines of 'You [government] said if we got the right quals/exp then we'd get the top-jobs that the foreigners currently get'. Hiring companies still didn't hire enough locals to quell this unrest, and as a result the government brought in reduced visa quotas for companies. So, just say for example, if there was a guideline that you could have 1 foreigner [aka 'Foreign Talent/FT'] for 5 locals, it's now 1 for 8. These ratios are being increasingly squeezed. But the jobs now going to locals rather than FT, are jobs locals have the quals/exp for. That naturally suggests roles that cannot be done by locals. This goes back to an earlier point about evidencing what useful skills/exp she has, but also anything within that that is in demand from SGn employers, that perhaps SGns cannot do, or demonstrably cannot do as well. Consider it like petitioning for a US employment visa; you need to win the case of demonstrating that you want a visa to do a job that a local can't.

As I recall on the LTVP forms non-employment income of the applicant is disclosed but I'm not sure if it's asked re: the associated spouse/EP. So for my LTVP application forms I disclosed (my) rental income under a broader heading of 'investment income' that included income from stocks etc. Anyway, I'd just look at the forms and see how they detail what kind of data they're after. And in due course if you're unsure when filling them out come back to this topic and poll for clarification on any specific points.
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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby JR8 » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 6:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It could take up to 6 months to find a position, suitable or not (and she may feel like she's been slapped in the face at the salary being offered (especially when they find out she's on a LTVP+). She will need a lot of patience and support from you as it will tend to play hard on the psychic of the job seeker. Especially one who has left a decent position to come here.


If I might add a comment to this, in case the rational isn't clear.
If she were hired from abroad 'on her own merits' then she might expect to receive something akin to an 'expat package' that tends to compensate for the familial upheaval of uprooting and moving half-way around the world. But: in the case of an LTVP+, she's already here, and so the employer (naturally) is most unlikely to offer her such a 'bells and whistles' package. In fact, there might be a sense that she already enjoys the benefits of your expat package (rent, flights, health insurance etc), and that 'she's here any she wants rather than needs this job, so no need to be generous eh?'. This would apply increasingly less if she has hot and in demand skills, where they might realise they have to offer a decent package to get her 'unique' [again] skillset.

And yes, spouses' jobhunts can be long and disheartening. You will need to offer a lot of support, and in the meantime ensure she is kept busy, can build a social life, and so on. Your own social life will probably begin in the office. Much harder for her home alone all day in a new place, with you bedding in and working all hours 'proving your worth' in the office... it's to your advantage to keep that in mind, especially while she goes about getting something fulfilling to do to fill her time. I am again in precisely such a position as hers right now, but some years ago was lucky enough to find a side-line that is geographically mobile, and keeps me mentally fully engaged. Without it there is no question I'd pack up and go home, ...or stay and go nuts :)
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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby beagene » Thu, 03 Sep 2015 8:39 pm

hey guys,

thanks for the overwhelming response. just to clarify, I am a Singaporean Citizen born and bred, so not on EP, and certainly not on any expat package, although the benefits I enjoy from my company are very favourable for a stay home wife. :) Hence not sure if she qualifies as a 'trailing spouse'.

Having said this, if (unlikely but you never know) I do ever lose my job, does it mean she loses her LTVP status assuming she has not gotten her PR or EP?


Cheers!

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Sep 2015 5:45 pm

She has advantages over a 'trailing spouse' in that you have family/friends/social life and (obviously) know SG like the back of your hand. Other aspects will be per a trailing spouse, like getting to make some of her own friends, and continuing previous social activities/hobbies and also finding new ones.

It's a good question in your para 2). To get an LTVP you have to establish your (you :)) income is enough to provide for you both. But I wonder if ICA would know if you lost your job? Or if they allow a window of time for you to find another? I find it hard to imagine that in such circumstances they would require your wife to promptly leave... Maybe it would only be an issue if/when you came to renew it? My last LTVP(+) has a 3 year validity... which reminds me I must check if I have to return it, since we have now just established residency (got our ICs) in a 3rd country ex-SG.

I don't recall this scenario being posited before: Maybe one of the visa-SMEs here knows?
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Re: RE: Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 04 Sep 2015 9:05 pm

JR8 wrote:. But I wonder if ICA would know if you lost your job? Or if they allow a window of time for you to find another?


I know SCs who became jobless after their spouse was on ltvp and still managed to get their spouse into PR and SC.

I feel the salary thing is to weed out opportunists ... but I can't figure it out

When the local women don't marry a guy, for example, what's he supposed to do ? Especially if his pay is not big ..

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Re: German wife's LTVP/LTVP+ chances

Postby beagene » Sun, 13 Mar 2016 6:30 pm

hi guys!

just wanted to update you guys on my current situation. Applied for the LTVP the first week she was in Singapore, got it after a 2-3 month wait. She managed to find work within 4 months of touching down and was able to get a letter of consent just on a LTVP, not LTVP+. We have made an appointment for application of PR just 2 weeks ago and the earliest appointment is in December! LOL fingures crossed it will all go well. Will update you guys again.

Thanks and Cheers!


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