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Rejected SPR -Appeal?

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zinc32
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Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby zinc32 » Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:01 pm

Hi, i have been residing in SG since 2008 and a PR , had recently sponsored my spouse application for PR
second time , (first time applied when we got married in2011-rejected)
This time around our details were quiet encouraging
1) My cpf balances show decent amount since i am a PR for last 8 yrs
2)i am employed with same company since coming to SG and pay is around 100k
3)I am married for last 4 years now
4)Cannot buy HDB due to govt rules of atleast household having citizen and hence saving to buy condo
5)My spouse (the applicant ) is working on EP 2 for last 2-3 yrs ,
6)NOA provided by my spouse is of 1 year
7)i have been contributing NOA since 2008
8)both of us have engaged in our community CC, and done volunterring helping work , such that our mobile number are with CC and we get sms when they need volunteer

i am quiet saddened to see that despite all this they rejected.
my question is that i wish to appeal as i believe this is our place called home and we are planning a family soon, besdies both of us have contributed to the country in our own little ways either by taxes or community intergration , what can write in my appeal ,should we visit them personally? or email a

Onew new development not captured in our application is that we are now expecting our baby (boy ) soon and as would be parents will be happy to make our son a contritbutor PR , however i first need my spouse to get PR

any suggestions , advices are most welcome andthanks for your help

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Re: RE: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:45 pm

zinc32 wrote:
any suggestions , advices are most welcome andthanks for your help


You didn't say where you hail from ..

And why not inform ICA about your son ?

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby zinc32 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 7:35 am

We hail from India ,
In our appeal that's what we plan to write about our son but need more opinions to understand our case is there something we are missing here other than the quota which we have no Control over

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 8:25 am

zinc32 wrote:Hi, i have been residing in SG since 2008 and a PR , had recently sponsored my spouse application for PR
second time , (first time applied when we got married in2011-rejected)
This time around our details were quiet encouraging (you mean quite, don't you?)
1) My cpf balances show decent amount since i am a PR for last 8 yrs This is of absolutely no benefit for a PR application as it's only your money.

2)i am employed with same company since coming to SG and pay is around 100k Salary is okay but we've seen people get PR with salaries of only 2.8k/mo as well, but this while not a negative isn't really a positive in the greater scheme of things.

3)I am married for last 4 years now (sufficient time I'd say)
4)Cannot buy HDB due to govt rules of atleast household having citizen and hence saving to buy condo (of no interest to ICA)
5)My spouse (the applicant ) is working on EP 2 for last 2-3 yrs , (Okay)
6)NOA provided by my spouse is of 1 year One year too little - recommended is at least two and preferably 3 tax assessments
7)i have been contributing NOA since 2008 So does anybody working in Singapore
8)both of us have engaged in our community CC, and done volunterring helping work , such that our mobile number are with CC and we get sms when they need volunteer - As this has been abused by the Indian diaspora in the past 5 years, this is no longer a benefit and ICA sees it for what it is. I've been member of my RC for over 6 years, but I didn't join it before I got PR 25 years ago and both of my children are grown up and I don't own a car so don't get anything for what I do, except getting the satisfaction of helping others (also why I've been on this board over 10 years). I'm not doing it because somebody told me it was a plus factor when trying to get PR. It's been done to death by those from the Sub-continent and as soon as they get PR, all "charitable work" ceases. I've seen it ever year in my own RC and the stories from other RC and such are all similar. Therefore, the ruse it seen through by ICA now and is of no benefit at all.

i am quiet (quite) saddened to see that despite all this they rejected. All this? Virtually nothing out of the ordinary
my question is that i wish to appeal as i believe this is our place called home and we are planning a family soon, besdies both of us have contributed to the country in our own little ways either by taxes or community intergration , what can write in my appeal ,should we visit them personally? or email a I see little contribution to the country at all. Paying income taxes is something everybody here does if their income is high enough. Therefore nothing special and as noted community intergration via community service isn't looked upon in the same way it was, say, five years ago.

Onew new development not captured in our application is that we are now expecting our baby (boy ) soon and as would be parents will be happy to make our son a contritbutor PR , however i first need my spouse to get PR

any suggestions , advices are most welcome andthanks for your help


Having said all that, there is nothing to keep you from retrying (even though the deck is stacked against you due to your own countrymen's abuse of the system over the past decade). If fact, that may entail you gambling (if you want it bad enough) by continuing to stay here and reapplying as often as necessary. But the story goes, if you don't have anything relevant to add to the original application (that would be of benefit to the country ultimately) then appealing is almost certainly a waste of time and effort. A bun in the oven is not going to help until delivery.

On a personal note, I think (as we've seen this scenario before) ICA is figuring that if they don't give the wife PR then ultimately, the spouse will give up and leave Singapore. Sadly, we only have recently gotten anecdotal evidence of this and have no way of verifying it. Good Luck

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby zinc32 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 6:27 pm

Thanks for your revert moderator , Cpf balances , Intention to buy property (making this our permanent residence and long term investment) are positives , besides this is an application through family ties hence NOA of 1 year should have been ok as i submitted my 3 yrs NOA .

On the community part , really cannot comment as you have firsthand experiences , but its our bad luck to be categorized under the same group . My only hope is that i invest soon and my baby which can show we are "not" among the ones who would like to seek PR for self benefit only .
will seek help from MP be entertained , we have been associated with CC for 3+ yrs now
In this case i am the wife , and had sponsored for my husband . i am also currently preg with our first son .
any other view are welcome , thanks , if some one had a successful appeal pls share your experiences on this forum

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Re: RE: Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 7:29 pm

zinc32 wrote: .
will seek help from MP be entertained , we have been associated with CC for 3+ yrs now


My own experience of appeal with MP letter, as well as the experience of those I know.

In Singapore there is zero influence by MP or minister ...

All their letter does is make the ICA relook at the applicant, and still only consider based on merit/quota/race or whatever ICA's direction from the policy makers say.

If Anybody has a different experience, I would love to know

Now back home, a letter from a minister will see civil servants tuck their tails between the legs, start shivering and say yes sir, done yesterday sir

Not in Singapore...

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 8:41 pm

zinc32 wrote:Thanks for your revert moderator , Cpf balances , Intention to buy property (making this our permanent residence and long term investment) are positives , besides this is an application through family ties hence NOA of 1 year should have been ok as i submitted my 3 yrs NOA .

First of all CPF balances are you money, buying property is your property, purchased to make YOU money, not the government therefore, because this is always the first thing an Indian family does, ICA looks at that askance as it would see true to form, only to sell it 5 years later, at a handsome profit, when they move back to India because of a "family matter". It's been done so often that now ALL from the subcontinent tend to get tarred with the same brush, even those who may well intend otherwise. In fact, it's pretty common knowledge that no matter where you set up housekeeping it's only temporary as in the end you will return to India one day. Not necessarily my opinion, but it's definitely ICA's (I'm married to and Indian and my half-Indian daughter is married to a new citizen (10 years) originally from Kerala). It's those who came before you that have dirtied up the pathways to both PR (today) and citizenship now. Personally I think it sucks, but there's SFA I can do about it.

On the community part , really cannot comment as you have firsthand experiences , but its our bad luck to be categorized under the same group . My only hope is that i invest soon and my baby which can show we are "not" among the ones who would like to seek PR for self benefit only .
will seek help from MP be entertained , we have been associated with CC for 3+ yrs now
In this case i am the wife , and had sponsored for my husband . i am also currently preg with our first son .
any other view are welcome , thanks , if some one had a successful appeal pls share your experiences on this forum


MP will write a letter, no problem. ICA will file it and send a response to the MP which will eventually find it's way to your hands. The letter will tell the MP that they are looking into it and your case will be judged on it's merits, and that will be as far as it goes. I know of nobody who has ever tried the MP route to actually have something successful come from it. (Volunteer membership in the PA or not).

In fact, I used two different MP many years ago (in the mid '80's) to get mine to no avail. I waited several years (three I think, and by that time I had two kids in school and had been here 11 years already) Eventually I got PR but you need commitment and the willingness to not jump the gun (reapplying before waiting the recommended time between submission) as it shows you are not good at following directions. And in you case, the only real difference was that my wife was a SC not PR, but the same still applies.

ICA tends to think that males who marry in Singapore to somebody with residency, especially if they are from 3rd world countries, are marrying solely to gain residency via the side door. Therein lies your biggest problem. If the tables were reversed, it would be substantially higher odds of success (but still less than most of the other races here as the demographic percentages for Indians has increased by over 2 percent from 2000 to 2010. This has caused concern among the Chinese majority therefore the pogrom against Indians getting PR & Citizenship since the 2011 GE. I wish it were not so, but there you go.....

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby zinc32 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 8:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
zinc32 wrote:Thanks for your revert moderator , Cpf balances , Intention to buy property (making this our permanent residence and long term investment) are positives , besides this is an application through family ties hence NOA of 1 year should have been ok as i submitted my 3 yrs NOA .

First of all CPF balances are you money, buying property is your property, purchased to make YOU money, not the government therefore, because this is always the first thing an Indian family does, ICA looks at that askance as it would see true to form, only to sell it 5 years later, at a handsome profit, when they move back to India because of a "family matter". It's been done so often that now ALL from the subcontinent tend to get tarred with the same brush, even those who may well intend otherwise. In fact, it's pretty common knowledge that no matter where you set up housekeeping it's only temporary as in the end you will return to India one day. Not necessarily my opinion, but it's definitely ICA's (I'm married to and Indian and my half-Indian daughter is married to a new citizen (10 years) originally from Kerala). It's those who came before you that have dirtied up the pathways to both PR (today) and citizenship now. Personally I think it sucks, but there's SFA I can do about it.

On the community part , really cannot comment as you have firsthand experiences , but its our bad luck to be categorized under the same group . My only hope is that i invest soon and my baby which can show we are "not" among the ones who would like to seek PR for self benefit only .
will seek help from MP be entertained , we have been associated with CC for 3+ yrs now
In this case i am the wife , and had sponsored for my husband . i am also currently preg with our first son .
any other view are welcome , thanks , if some one had a successful appeal pls share your experiences on this forum


MP will write a letter, no problem. ICA will file it and send a response to the MP which will eventually find it's way to your hands. The letter will tell the MP that they are looking into it and your case will be judged on it's merits, and that will be as far as it goes. I know of nobody who has ever tried the MP route to actually have something successful come from it. (Volunteer membership in the PA or not).

In fact, I used two different MP many years ago (in the mid '80's) to get mine to no avail. I waited several years (three I think, and by that time I had two kids in school and had been here 11 years already) Eventually I got PR but you need commitment and the willingness to not jump the gun (reapplying before waiting the recommended time between submission) as it shows you are not good at following directions. And in you case, the only real difference was that my wife was a SC not PR, but the same still applies.

ICA tends to think that males who marry in Singapore to somebody with residency, especially if they are from 3rd world countries, are marrying solely to gain residency via the side door. Therein lies your biggest problem. If the tables were reversed, it would be substantially higher odds of success (but still less than most of the other races here as the demographic percentages for Indians has increased by over 2 percent from 2000 to 2010. This has caused concern among the Chinese majority therefore the pogrom against Indians getting PR & Citizenship since the 2011 GE. I wish it were not so, but there you go.....



Understand your point on the tendency for many Indians to resell the property at a profit ... But like I side it's now getting generalized that every other indian will do so even though there are plenty who have made their home for good here

I would also like to highlight I am not jumping the gun the first time we applied was when we got married I was naive to understand they will construce this as a way for my spouse to get pr later realised I should have waited longer ..

The letter never asked us to reapply after xxx yrs . So we went with our judgement my hubby looked for a job and paid his NOA after 3 From the first application we tried again this time. Something tell me our application is much stronger and needs a second chance I have been here for over 8 years now and my husband for 4 yrs . The letter this time also doesnt mention anything on the waiting period for any reapplication it just says "we have evaluated the application and supporting docs and regret ...
Second line your husband can continue to stay and work at his current work pass ...

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 9:14 pm

By the way, the moderator did not 'revert'... he REPLIED. Incorrect use of the word.


REVERT

1. to return to a former habit, practice, belief, condition, etc.:
They reverted to the ways of their forefathers.

2. Law. to go back to or return to the former owner or to his or her heirs.

3. Biology. to return to an earlier or primitive type.

4. to go back in thought or discussion:
He constantly reverted to his childhood.


The moderator did none of these things. He REPLIED.

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby Wd40 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 9:18 pm

OP, I think I read somewhere on this forum before, that you can apply directly PR for your son as soon as he is born. If you are really serious about settling here you can try that route. Your wife may not be given PR for a long long time until some drastic changes happen in this country. So you need to be prepared for that.

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby zinc32 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 9:58 pm

Strong eagle - thanks for correction in my English ! I wasn't looking for that at this forum

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:31 pm

No problem ZINC32

In line with the June-July Great Singapore Sale, most of the people here are offering advice plus english lessons for free :)

>Strong eagle - thanks for correction in my English ! I wasn't looking for that at this forum

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:34 pm

I actually feel sorry for you situation cuz you have now spent quite a few years in Singapore and yet there is no assurance of a settled future.

IMHO, you should continue to try for PR for your spouse but be prepared for option B. It sucks but thats the way it is here. If I were you, I will focus my energy on my career and money instead of dwelling on PR appeal and repplication, etc.

The world is a big place and if you make it elsewhere, you son will thank you :)

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:37 pm

Recently, I read somewhere that people can easily read wrongly spelt words as long as the first and last alphabet are in the right position. Of coz, it wont make sense if there are many possible words that can be formed. But, for unique and obvious words, it may be possible to read with ease.

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Re: Rejected SPR -Appeal?

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 27 Jun 2015 12:29 am

midlet2013, so does that mean proper English should be removed from school curriculums? Get the first and last letter correct and the right total number of letter in the middle and nevermind? I think not. We use that innate ability to decipher the writing of illiterate persons. We shouldn't have to use that ability when reading the writings of supposedly highly literate persons (e.g., Foreign "Talent"). This is an English Forum, not SGforums. Oh, and what is coz supposed to mean, it doesn't have the right number of letters or even the correct letters. Or are you a local? If so, than you can be forgiven. ;-)


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