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Europe and the constitution

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Europe and the constitution

Postby ksl » Thu, 21 Jun 2007 5:39 am

I've been following the European constitution debate for some time now, and its absolutely amazing to see the double standards of the UK
parliament to tell absolute lies to the European debate. This is only one link which it doesn't really mention the lies, however you can get a feel of the truth, becuase the UK government, is against giving the people of the UK their fundemental rights and will veto the meeting.

Can you imagine telling the people of UK, that they have no rights, under British law, thats what it boils down to.
But to have parliament to agree, to no referendum on the matter is in my opinion draconic and a long way from my ideals of equal rights. Even worse is that they can lie to the european debate, by telling them the UK would vote no, if it was put to a referendum. Now that is criminal!

The UK higher echelons have changed many British laws, to their own benefit, since joining Europe, so that the UK people cannot get their way! without a costly fight.

Its been Blairs & Browns policy to steal from one to give to another, I read now how desperate pensioners are that they cannot pay their council tax bills, and are being sent to prison, these people are in their 80"s and would rather spend there money on heating in the winter.

What are the people of the UK thinking, to allow the government to walk all over their rights, like this!

Surely they don't want to be oppressed, or maybe the education is that bad, the majority cannot read and comprehend what Blair and the rest of government are up to. Christ talk about Singapore! this reallly gets up my nose :x The UK is absolutely full of immigrants, the prisons are completely full, they released thousands of very dangerous criminals by accident, murderers, rapists, and perverts.

They closed down the mental hospitals and are now, forcing all mental patients onto forced medication because of some murders by psychotics, the word is to detain all those with mental illness and give them a depot injection which lasts a year, then dump them.

What a dangerous country its become, and even though i have never been to the USA, I can draw parallels. Of course the UK doesn't want to become European, they never have, and they never will be, unless the people stand up for themselves and their rights, signing petitions doesn't help, so how does one bring down a government? Guy Fawkes had the right idea!


Guy Fawkes (April 13 1570 – January 31 1606), who was also known as Guido Fawkes, born in York, was an English soldier and member of a group of Roman Catholics who attempted to carry out the Gunpowder Plot on 5 November 1605.
The plot was an attempt to assassinate the Protestant King James I (James VI of Scotland) and the members of both houses of the Parliament of England, by blowing up Westminster Palace during the formal opening session of the 1605 Parliament, in which the king would address a joint assembly of both the House of Lords and the House of Commons. Guy Fawkes was in large part responsible for the later stages of the plan's execution. His activities were detected, however, before the plan's completion. Following a severe interrogation involving the use of torture, and a trial in Westminster Hall by Judge John Popham, Fawkes and his co-conspirators were executed for treason and attempted murder. Guy Fawkes' failure (for some the attempt) is remembered with Guy Fawkes Night (also known as Bonfire Night or Fireworks Night) on November 5.

But that never worked either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6222992.stm

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Postby ashnd76 » Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:39 pm

well..the LAbour party political manifesto " Bring Rights Home" is only a tool to serve political purpose, and to appeal to younger voters.

The HRA 1998 which supposedly give fundemental rights and freedoms seriously lacks bite coz the Art. 13 : Right to effective remedy has been taken out.

In fact subsequent to these articles there are so many exceptions to it. Best of all ECHR is not even binding.

So i guess, yeah, UK still holds a tight grip on its parliamentary supremacy. Its merely political.

But i do think time is running out coz if all member states do ractify the EU constitution, thereby creating a United States of Europe, it'll be a matter of time before UK gets an ultimatum.

To follow EU totally , adpot its Constitution and convert to Euro...or withdraw itself from EU.

Only time will tell..

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Postby ksl » Sat, 23 Jun 2007 1:47 pm

ashnd76 wrote:well..the LAbour party political manifesto " Bring Rights Home" is only a tool to serve political purpose, and to appeal to younger voters.

The HRA 1998 which supposedly give fundemental rights and freedoms seriously lacks bite coz the Art. 13 : Right to effective remedy has been taken out.

In fact subsequent to these articles there are so many exceptions to it. Best of all ECHR is not even binding.

So i guess, yeah, UK still holds a tight grip on its parliamentary supremacy. Its merely political.

But i do think time is running out coz if all member states do ractify the EU constitution, thereby creating a United States of Europe, it'll be a matter of time before UK gets an ultimatum.

To follow EU totally , adpot its Constitution and convert to Euro...or withdraw itself from EU.

Only time will tell..


If only you was right, there might be a glimmer of hope, but I don't think so!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6232540.stm
I'm absolutely disgusted with the whole of europe for letting the UK rule them at will! It's a damn disgrace for human rights.

The government is streamlining the laws, to cut the majority of people out of the social system, so that money can be moved to pacify voters, and nothing can be done, what was once a system that protected workers against disability and accidents at work, as now gone, along with the unions and the rights to strike. One will have to sue the employee within 3 years or get nothing! And a word of warning, you cannot sue and win, if having an accident at work, then returning to work, before the court case is finished, which means even when you feel you are fit for work and return, 4 years down the road, you suffer a relapse, its just hard luck! You get nothing and no help from the government becasue you do not meet the disabilty critieria, even though you are losing 50% of your income becasue of injury or illness, you cannot meet the strict disability critieria, unless you have no arms or legs.

There used to be earnings related help, for people who suffered disability at work, the law as now changed all that, so actually nobody can qualify unless you have no arms or legs, which means 100% disabled. and even if 100% disabled you are not pensioned off, but on long term incapacity!

Although the civil service is catered for, and can claim compensation packages for illness caused through work. and many policemen have taken advantage of this, and scooped literally thousands of pounds for stress related illness, yet our troops are totally ignored!

And for all you brits out there, this is what your future and taxes have been all about! while the idle dossiers and criminals reap your hard earned $!

The reason i am pissed off, is because back in 83, i suffered a sever discuss prolapse, and couldn't walk for 4 months, I returned to work after 6 months, but had to re-educate myself, because i could not do the heavy construction work, I tried to claim, but my claim was thrown out, because i had returned back to work, and even though my injury became worse, the Department of works and pensions said, its a seperate injury, which doesn't meet the 14% qualifying claim amount. I could neither claim against the employees, because it could not be proved, that my injury got worse, because of the new work i was doing.

Although my retraining expense cost over 8000 pounds, for reschooling, at my own expense, I have seen the system deteriate over the last 30 years, and know of genuine claiments, that get nothing, while dossiers, whinos and junkies, get the maximum of around 300 pounds a week, inclusive of rent and utilities, while people with injuries maybe on 180 pounds a week in low paid employment, because he cannot hack what he was doing any longer due to injury.

When i was home last a collegue at the age of 60, had given up construction work, he couldn't hack it any longer, because of arthritis and back pain, he was getting 45 pound a week, and no other help, even though he had a mortgage to pay, but no family! The country is in a shocking state, and certainly overdue for a revolution.

The final curtain for all UK citizens! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6232652.stm
.

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Postby ashnd76 » Sun, 24 Jun 2007 5:28 pm

well precisely..

in fact there are some commentaries who are of the opinion that UK was much better off under Thatcher.

Notwithstanding the fact that Thatcher had her fair share of critics but she was certainly no US poodle.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:47 pm

ashnd76 wrote:well precisely..

in fact there are some commentaries who are of the opinion that UK was much better off under Thatcher.

Notwithstanding the fact that Thatcher had her fair share of critics but she was certainly no US poodle.


Yes I agree with you there, at least Maggie could think for herself, I guess Tony Blair the poodle, has been influenced by the Bushs' ranch in the USA.

I have never voted in all my life in the UK, simply because there has never been a true labour party, or a party for the manual workers! which is the majority, and i know for a fact that many immigrants from Poland and other eastern European countries, are taking work, well below the european market rate, in the UK. Which is illegal under european law, although the immigrants don't complain because they are still better off than their own Countries, and they want the work.

Russian mafia and Romainian travellers seem to be settled in well, with the Yardies from Jamica and the Triads from Hong Kong,

The police are most definately following the USA model of shoot first and ask questions later, I wouldn't mind, but they haven't managed to shoot any criminals, just innocent people!

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Postby ashnd76 » Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:52 pm

Honestly speaking, Blair made lots of promises in his political manifesto "Bring Rights Home" but ten years down e road, not all of his promises have been truly delivered.

Was surfing BBC.co.uk and it showed a picture of a man carrying a card at downing st, saying:" Good Riddance" ! (hehehe...dats was cool man!)

Well..LEt's see what Gordon Brown can come up with, but being the first PM in 17 years, to be elected unopposed, might have a certain impact, i don't know.

Anyway was reading briefly on his profile, he's a gifted guy it seems, actively distributing Labour pamplets at e age of 12 and getting into University at 16 or sumthing.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 4:23 am

ashnd76 wrote:Honestly speaking, Blair made lots of promises in his political manifesto "Bring Rights Home" but ten years down e road, not all of his promises have been truly delivered.

Was surfing BBC.co.uk and it showed a picture of a man carrying a card at downing st, saying:" Good Riddance" ! (hehehe...dats was cool man!)

Well..LEt's see what Gordon Brown can come up with, but being the first PM in 17 years, to be elected unopposed, might have a certain impact, i don't know.

Anyway was reading briefly on his profile, he's a gifted guy it seems, actively distributing Labour pamplets at e age of 12 and getting into University at 16 or sumthing.


I was reading about Blairs pension a few days ago, I believe it was 150,000 pounds sterling a year, payable now!!! And the talk was he can earn 300,000 pound a year holding seminars! I wouldn't mind, but he's not even a true labour politician!

Christ we can't even get our pensions at 65, and the amount is no more than 5,000 a year!

I personally want to see the welfare system scrapped, but the crime rate will end up higher than the USA! Who benefits from all the wars? Its not the British working class, thats for sure! But try the politicians like Maggie Thatchers son, who made a killing out of saudi contracts and arms deals!

The system is rotten from the core and a bloody disgrace the way it treats our servicemen, and pensioners!

Can you forward this link to the poodle Blair! I said to the wife maybe i should stand at speakers corner at Hyde park and scream my frustration, problem is, only the alcoholics would turn up and say give it up mate, your wasting your time. People have been trying for over 200 years or longer, standing there!

There is free speech but never any action! To tell the truth I don't know what political party I should belong to, becuase I am also for competition and getting on in life, but i have always been a thorn in the side of authoritarians, for my rights, and the rights of others, weaker than myself.

I can recall my discharge from the Military, when i was called in to sign my discharge papers and book, I was given an exemplary record, although I couldn't sign it, because they really didn't want me to purchase my contract back after 12 years service, and I insisted, they stopped me twice, then couldn't stop me the third time, which took 18 more months of processing.

I disliked what the colonel had wrote about me and my domestic problem at the time, I also disliked his tone of talking down and making opinions on me, when he didn't really know me, because I was in a corps, and attached to a squadron, the only thing we had in common was 3 weeks together in a racing boat!

How the devil can he know me! I told him to stuff his discharge book and papers, I wasn't signing and never did!
I did however lodge an offical complaint, that took 3 years from army records, and assured me that these mistakes could not happen again.

You see the military is the same as government, you mess it about and they will make it difficult, I like difficult! although these days i'm too old for it! so i'm working on my ego for peace and tranquility!

Surprisingly, I made some very good friends in the officer echelon from many regiments i served with like the marines and paras, and others that understood me and my rights!
Many aristocrats obviously found that insubordinate! Which i was at times! and I paid for it by being sent into action with specialised forces, which suited me, eventually rebadging to those that showed respect! After all i was a volunteer!

Then it all came out in 2000, how our government had authorised the poisoning of soldiers in the gas chambers of Porton Down. A high security NBC warfare centre, I was also used has a guinea pig twice without my knowledge!

The scandal hit the news with a large scale police investigation which proved it! Although the government was protected from prosecution. Now maybe people can understand why politicians can never be trusted, with the lives of the common people. They are just numbers, voters, and not human, in the eyes of most politicians and law lords!

Hey Plavt, is there any hope at all, for improvements? :shock:

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Postby ashnd76 » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 1:00 pm

sheeesh...its dat bad huh.

I guess there are countless UK citizens who are disappointed with Blair, I was reading about Lord Irvine, who was once the Lord Chancellor, and Blair's ex-room mate during their university days.

He got so pissed off by the govt's meddling in the judiciary that he resigned almost immediately.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 30 Jun 2007 2:37 pm

ashnd76 wrote:sheeesh...its dat bad huh.

I guess there are countless UK citizens who are disappointed with Blair, I was reading about Lord Irvine, who was once the Lord Chancellor, and Blair's ex-room mate during their university days.

He got so pissed off by the govt's meddling in the judiciary that he resigned almost immediately.


Actually the UK and development of nerve agents is not banned, only, the use of, under the Geneve convention, the scientists experimented on soldiers without their knowledge from 1952 right up until 1989, there had only been one instant death in the gas chambers in 1952. Ronald Maddison I think is name was, his remaining family won the case of unlawful killing in 2005 against the Ministry fo Defence, but over the years thousands have been poisoned, with parlimentary approval!

Even today, the government will not release the posions used, because of national security issues, so the long term side effects are being ignored and cannot be treated, although most have nerve damage and cancers or have died quite early in life.

Our troops in Iraq are also ignored on there return, especially so if they leave the forces, many of which have psychological problems after serving on the front lines of terror.

This is to say, that the strain of knowing, that one is target practice every time your patrol is sent out on the street, is a very stressful situation to handle, for the cowards, that is easy target practice! Its all a different kind of warfare these days, although we had 30 years of it in Ireland, the government never won!

They gave in and recruited the IRA into government, after politicians lied all those years, that they would never give in to the bomb and terror, becuase of the 1000's of lives lost. Both governments know the mistake of Iraq, but why care, they or their families are not out there putting their lives on the line!

In which case I have the right to accuse both Bush & Blair of failure, of which can be documented. The Ireland problem is far from over in the eyes of the freedom fighters, belive me! Its just a setback! Personally I don't see why the UK hang on to Ireland, why they just don't give it back and move on with life!

Equality and democracy is far from the UKs policy, believe me, although they have to be tactical and to be seen as contributors to human rights, you can now see the real truth behind the government proporsals, to control their own laws,on welfare benefits and fundimental freedom of rights.

The European law stands for a greater freedom for individuals, of which the UK will fight against, because this would unsettle the rich and powerful and the class distinction in UK.

I have first hand experience of these problems whereby I have been allocated a works pension in Europe, due to a working illness, although the UK do not recognise European law, so will not pay their contribution towards the pension of which I have been fighting for the last 3 years.

Not only that, it is extremely difficult to enforce these rights legally, because of the governments law, against it. So the procedures are always delayed through appeals and legalities!.

For a Brit who is european, and I mean through employment of work in Europe, then the European law is dysfunctional and very complicated for workers, so much because the UK have been allowed to opt out, through collusion, instead of referendum, of which i believe is a disgrace on Europe for allowing such procedure, Blair the whole mighty seems to have got is way, licking arses!

But my opinion as always been the same on politicians, they all piss in the same pot, even the women, because there is no other choice of playing the game!

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Postby ashnd76 » Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:17 pm

With rgds to EU law, you mentioned that the UK does not recognize European Law? But i do beg to differ, coz when Westminster passed the 1972 legislation: European Communities Act, the Parliament concede their supremacy to the EU.

There have been numerous cases whereby the ECJ has issued judgements against the UK for breaching EU treaties, regulations and directives. From commercial cases to admiralty to employment, the whole spectrum.

In fact the EU law is so powerful that it has direct vertical & horizontal effect, meaning aggrieved claimants like yourself can comence an action against a UK public authority or against another private individual.

If the UK local courts cant handle it, you can take up your case all the way to ECJ

And if an Act of Parliament is in breach, EU law will dictate that it be put aside and repeal, especially when it involves employment law and personal injury is sustained.

But of coz, time and financial means is a concern for most but you might want to explore this avenue of using the ECA 1972 Act. From the brief facts which you told me, i honestly think you have a solid case man..

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Postby ksl » Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:58 am

ashnd76 wrote:With rgds to EU law, you mentioned that the UK does not recognize European Law? But i do beg to differ, coz when Westminster passed the 1972 legislation: European Communities Act, the Parliament concede their supremacy to the EU.

There have been numerous cases whereby the ECJ has issued judgements against the UK for breaching EU treaties, regulations and directives. From commercial cases to admiralty to employment, the whole spectrum.

In fact the EU law is so powerful that it has direct vertical & horizontal effect, meaning aggrieved claimants like yourself can comence an action against a UK public authority or against another private individual.

If the UK local courts cant handle it, you can take up your case all the way to ECJ

And if an Act of Parliament is in breach, EU law will dictate that it be put aside and repeal, especially when it involves employment law and personal injury is sustained.

But of coz, time and financial means is a concern for most but you might want to explore this avenue of using the ECA 1972 Act. From the brief facts which you told me, i honestly think you have a solid case man..


Yes it is quite true, that The European courts can over rule British Law, if one is able to get that far, for one the British Law since 1972 has been specifically changed to obstruct, rather than stop.

European law states, that a claimants must exhaust all routes of appeals and tribunals, before being eligible to apply to the European court for consideration.

The welfare Rights of UK, is in fact controlled and payed for by the British Government and is not allowed to get involved in European claims, under British law, although they will advise you to seek a Solicitor/Lawyer with knowledg of European laws, this is fine if you are wealthy and can afford the case. Much harder in reality to find a legal team with European law qualifications outside of London and the cost is unbelievable at 150 to 200 pounds an hour.

All legal systems have changed, that legal aid is not fully available to fight cases in Europe and no lawyer would offer their service, unless payment up front, or they evaluate a 99% chance of winning the case, in which they would offer a no win no fee condition.

Thatcher started the legal changes in the 70's with John Major Continuing, and Blair adding the final touches, in areas of fundimental rights, social welfare benifits.

You see the obsticles put in the way are the hurdles, that one must clear, to continue the fight against the British laws, by making the law complicated and difficult, with many paths of appeal, it causes many clients to give up, more through frustration than anything else. Surely you can understand the amount of claims that do not make it to Europe, because the time it takes, and also at the very last minute, The government departments can chose to give in! Or suffer the consequence of being overidden by Europe.

But like a clever shit General Practioner that i know, who calls himself an expert witness in his 70's, he's on the government books to stop cliaments, these people are difficult to fight, because you can go to the nearest convienant expert legal medical adivisors, to be told they cannot represent you, because they are representing the doctors, so there is a conflict of interest.

These expert witnesses of GP status are only failed specialists who are biased towards the people, and very dangerous in my eyes, because they are their to prevent fraud, within a 20 minute interview!

Of course this is a very dangerouse practice, you cannot have GP's making opinions on cases, that are decided by specialist consultants, but this again is British law, which has failed many and resulted in murder quite a few times, by sever mentally ill people.

The problem lies in the system itself, the UK couldn't organise a chimps party and do it right, and thats how it is supposed to be, the population are the chimpanzees, in the eyes of the government.

Believe me, the UK are not stupid at all! For the ones that do make it to Europe and win, is absolutely financially worth it to government to put all the obsticles in the path of its people.

We can look at it from a different point of view and ask why will the UK not accept basic human rights, why have they bargained to opt out on fundimental rights and social welfare?

The opt out allows them to enforce British laws in a suppressive manner basically to block all British people! There was a time when pension was given in UK for illness and disability in 1972, these laws have now been changed, no one in UK is allowed pension until they reach reirement age.

The laws for loss of earnings have been changed from 1972, they do not exsist anymore! You see since 1972 all governments have been streamlining the British law, to be an effective, obstical to serve political means, that is to take funds from one place to give to another. although all we see in UK is the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, probably 90% of people do not even know anything at all about European law, so therefore don't know there rights.

I myself studied European law, and most failings with the British law are the complicated terms and misunderstanding, that departmental heads refer too, there own interpretation of the law, is used as an obsticle, to save money! But you are right

European law can always over ride British law, if you can get it to a European court and the average time is around 5 years, so i have been told. 3years have gone by now, and my appeals have not yet been exhausted, I know I will win, if i do not give up, although the cost is enormous, not only in health but wealth and family strains too!

I believe over 60% of pensioners don't even get what they are entitled too, because they gave up on their legitimate claims, because of obsticles put in their way! This is fact, believe me! Nothing is easy in UK, for honest hardworking people, yet the criminals and dossiers are laughing all the way to the banks! Its a farce!

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Postby ashnd76 » Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:41 pm

Well the "criminals" are thriving for sure, I can't agree with you more, but,to me, its not a farce coz they have excellent lawyers advising them on techniques to exploit the loopholes in the law, and they never give up.

I guess these two traits which pave their way to success should be a model for us, if not sumthing for us to think about.

ITs not unique to UK alone, in US too the organised "crime" gangs are recording all time successes, and they have somehow turn around situations to their advantage e.g. by exploiting the Right to bear arms in the Constitution at the time when most Americans want handguns and assault rifles off the streets.

Even in Singapore the "illegal" moneylenders have mastered contract law, and issue out written contracts to debtors, with their photocopy ID attached, and throw in a guarantor & witness as well.

But they cleverly disguise it as a loan for a business venture, leaving out the interest rate charged coz unauthorized charging & collection of interest runs contrary to the Moneylending Act.

I guess to pursue your case all the way to ECJ is a time-consuming, costly and a mentally burdensome affair. In real life that path is filled with red tape & bureaucracy esp when you're dealing with a govt department.

Juz an idea... any chance of referring your case to the Parliamentary Ombudsman. I heard it has been steadily increasing its bite in bringing some govt. depts to task.

In any case, dun give up. I always believe that if you were to look hard enough there will somehow be a way out in getting what you want. Keep the faith man..

*Note that i've put the words criminals in inverted commas, coz they are innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 08 Jul 2007 2:10 am

Juz an idea... any chance of referring your case to the Parliamentary Ombudsman. I heard it has been steadily increasing its bite in bringing some govt. depts to task.



I wish! :) Once all appeals are exhausted, I could then approach the Ombudsman, although there would be no real benefit, other than he would say I am right, and they would correct the fault, I doubt very much that they would consider the 3 years of pain and suffering, and try to put the blame on computer error.

Although the good news is, that i recieved and email yesterday, they have addmitted to making an error of over payment for the last 3 years, and have now stopped that payment, they are not requesting i pay that money back, because it was their mistake!!!

What they don't seem to see are the consequences of their mistake, of loss to myself, which are of enormous proportions. One being, because I could not fulfill my obligation to provide my family with sufficient accommodation in accordance with immigration laws.

Therefore their error of not paying me correctly, when i first arrived in UK actually split my family up for the last 3 years, hence my wife having to take a position in Singapore, and myself having to travel backwards and forwards several times a year from UK, at enormous cost to myself, until my financial situation is corrected.

They are pretty well tied up in their own chaos, at the moment, which is a nightmare for many, I will relinquish my connection with UK after I have had my day in court, which shouldn't be long! 3 years of hell is more than i can handle!

There is no way in the world I would willingly let any government department run my life for a 80 pound a week pension, that must be the joke of the century in the rest of the world, yet the British still cannot see, they are mothered and controlled, with the welfare system and the only ones benefitting are the hard core con artists, which is around 3 million plus, that have never paid a penny into it, and that is without, including the wealthy immigrants and economic refugees, that abuse the system.

Now the National Health Service is on its way for outsourcing, it will be even more difficult to get, what one has paid into all ones life. It really would be better off scrapped.

My biggest mistake after 25 years in Scandinavia, was thinking, that UK would eventually take the European route, and embrace human rights fully, it wasn't until i investigated many of the laws on welfare and pensions, that i realised that the UK had changed many of the laws on fundimental rights in the workplace and department of works and pensions, that I could positively see a political change for the worse, and this had an American flavour to it capitalism.

Not that there is anything wrong with the USA system , but it comes has a real shock to actually see the obsticles and red tape put in the way, before one can get European justice.

We had rights to claim loss of earnings due to accidents or work related illness, all these fundimental rights are now lost in the UK, you can have them if you are prepared to fight the law, thats what they are now saying!

The ball is in the governments courts, because they can give in whenever they want, or stick it out for the fight, whichever is the most cost efficient
method required.

I call that very smart, because they can pay me handsomely not to win a conviction against them, or they can take the risk with the European Courts, with them the government holding all the experts to evaluate the consequence.

I would say, they are saving billions of pounds each year, by flouting the European laws, because the statistics show, people do give up, when red tape is in their way!

I do have several cases going at the moment against government departments, the biggest one, the lawyers are not charging for, its a no win no fee case and of subsequent value to all British soldiers.

I would say the legal team are pretty confident of winning, otherwise they would not take the case to the high court, although they do not expect to win at the high court, under british law, but will win under European Law and this case is in its 7th year! So human rights and democracy you can measure with a yard stick.

The UK are most certainly not democratic, nor is the government a true labour government, at a guess i would say it is conservatism in sheeps clothing.(wolves dressed up as lambs, to lure their constituents(sheep) folly). Tactically its called new labour!

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Postby GordonGekko » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 2:35 am

All I can say is that the EU is the final nail in the coffin of Europe. EU and its members cannot win the globalization game AND keep on upholding the state-provided life most its citizens lead today. :oops:
The future is in Asia. :D
You do what you are.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 9:31 am

GordonGekko wrote:All I can say is that the EU is the final nail in the coffin of Europe. EU and its members cannot win the globalization game AND keep on upholding the state-provided life most its citizens lead today. :oops:
The future is in Asia. :D

Seems the US is also in deep financial trouble, with national debt that they cannot pay off, lenders becoming more cautious about lending more, and not enough to bankroll the baby-boomers soon to retire. It's not going to be pretty.

Asia's an ok place to be right now. :)


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