Singapore Expats

^^ That sounds like a Southern Baptist to me

I should know my in-laws used to be one of those...

A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect and to lead his family. A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.

Aaah religion....

beenthere wrote:^^ That sounds like a Southern Baptist to me

I should know my in-laws used to be one of those...

A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect and to lead his family. A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.

Aaah religion....

the problem with quoting scripture--from any religion--to justify anything is that you assume the other guy interprets said scripture the same way as you do.

but then, the whole argument falls apart if the other guy has different beliefs. sure, there are "universal truths/values" but it can be quite arrogant for one to think yours is the only one because you automatically discount any value to the other guy's argument, regardless of logic.

^^

Well said!

Depending on my POV, I can find selective quotes from any religion to support my prejudices. In fact, in the quote above, the preceding and subsequent lines not quoted do change the tenor of that paragraph.

I normally do not participate in on-line discussions on religion any more unless I smell some underlying prejudices.

And you are absolutely right, my universal "truth" may not be your universal "truth". Unless we agree on the axiom that forms the basis of any belief system (I am using terms from epistemic logic), our interpretations will always get in the way of rational discourse.

leona123 wrote:According to Islam, the testimony of woman is half that of man because women are deficient in their mind. Women's inheritance is NOT the same as that of men. Men are maintainers of women. Women cannot say no to sex else they will be cursed by angels. Women are like tilth and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Whole lot of other things.

Where do I sign up?

beenthere wrote:^^

Well said!

Depending on my POV, I can find selective quotes from any religion to support my prejudices. In fact, in the quote above, the preceding and subsequent lines not quoted do change the tenor of that paragraph.

I normally do not participate in on-line discussions on religion any more unless I smell some underlying prejudices.

And you are absolutely right, my universal "truth" may not be your universal "truth". Unless we agree on the axiom that forms the basis of any belief system (I am using terms from epistemic logic), our interpretations will always get in the way of rational discourse.

There is nothing like universal truth. Whatever is there, that is only POV of some individuals, be it Mohamad, Jesus, Buddha or whoever.
But if one religion tries to adhire to their POV, then the problem arises.
I don't thing any other religion is trying to follow medieval culture or POV put forth by a person in medieval times, saying that it is a revelation by GOD himself.

For eg. as per sharia law, a woman who is a victim of rape has to produce 4 male witnesses to testify in her favour or else she may be punished for telling false and tarnishing the reputation of an 'honorable man'. There are some countries which are following such antiquated laws, and there are some countries where there is a possibility of such laws to be imposed.

these ancient scriptures, lest we forget, were written during times when there was still a lot of uncertainty in the world. the body of knowledge back then was not as mature as it is now. given the knowledge at the times, that was the best they had and they worked with that.

we also forget that it's also those who had power that influences how things are run. it's those who have access to ways of preserving knowledge that dictate what will be on record, what can be passed on from generation to generation.

traditions are usually the way things are done because they're supposed to be the "best practices" that have been found out through several iterations. but just because they're the then-current best practices, it doesn't mean something even better will come along. people learn. they adjust how they interact with the world and with other people based on what they learned.

now, if people refuse to learn, that's a whole different story.

beenthere wrote:^^

Well said!

Depending on my POV, I can find selective quotes from any religion to support my prejudices. In fact, in the quote above, the preceding and subsequent lines not quoted do change the tenor of that paragraph.

I normally do not participate in on-line discussions on religion any more unless I smell some underlying prejudices.

And you are absolutely right, my universal "truth" may not be your universal "truth". Unless we agree on the axiom that forms the basis of any belief system (I am using terms from epistemic logic), our interpretations will always get in the way of rational discourse.

Everyone is entitled to interpret scriptures their own way and live their lives according to the way they interpret their scriptures. However, when they interpret the scriptures their way and also want to enforce their thinking by using the law so that the masses have to follow, that's where the problem lies.

JayCee wrote:

leona123 wrote:According to Islam, the testimony of woman is half that of man because women are deficient in their mind. Women's inheritance is NOT the same as that of men. Men are maintainers of women. Women cannot say no to sex else they will be cursed by angels. Women are like tilth and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Whole lot of other things.

Where do I sign up?

LOL.

Expat_guy wrote:For eg. as per sharia law, a woman who is a victim of rape has to produce 4 male witnesses to testify in her favour or else she may be punished for telling false and tarnishing the reputation of an 'honorable man'. There are some countries which are following such antiquated laws, and there are some countries where there is a possibility of such laws to be imposed.

Actually, to be fair to Islam, this is one thing that has been obviously deliberately changed to be used against Islam in most anti-islamic websites. But, if you look at the quran and ahadith, it has no mention that a victim or rape has to produce 4 male witnesses. In fact, what is stated in the quran(if I remember correctly) is that if a guy is accusing a woman of adultery, he needs to have 4 male witnesses. I'll post the quotes later and you can see that it is definitely taken to mean something else deliberately.

BTW, what does POV mean?

pov = point of view.

(alternatively, do a search for pov on youtube.com)

Hi leona123, i tried to PM you but can't (not enuf post yet LOL).

I am having the same problem as you... inter-racial relationship *headache* Would like to seek for some advise from you... if you dun mind sharing.

My email address [email protected]

Thanks a million

lilprincess wrote:Hi leona123, i tried to PM you but can't (not enuf post yet LOL).

I am having the same problem as you... inter-racial relationship *headache* Would like to seek for some advise from you... if you dun mind sharing.

My email address [email protected]

Thanks a million

Just dropped you an email .

lilprincess wrote:Hi leona123, i tried to PM you but can't (not enuf post yet LOL).

I am having the same problem as you... inter-racial relationship *headache* Would like to seek for some advise from you... if you dun mind sharing.

My email address [email protected]

Thanks a million

Just dropped you an email .

inter-racial relationship shouldnt be the problem, it is more the inter-religion relationship that cause more of the problem.

leona123 wrote:Actually, to be fair to Islam, this is one thing that has been obviously deliberately changed to be used against Islam in most anti-islamic websites. But, if you look at the quran and ahadith, it has no mention that a victim or rape has to produce 4 male witnesses. In fact, what is stated in the quran(if I remember correctly) is that if a guy is accusing a woman of adultery, he needs to have 4 male witnesses. I'll post the quotes later and you can see that it is definitely taken to mean something else deliberately.

As mentioned earlier, the quotes from the quran by 3 famous translators are as follows:

Quran 4:24

Picktal: And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accepttheir testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -
Shakir: And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors,
Yusuf Ali: And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them witheighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-

This is also stated clearly in the quran commentary Tafsir Ibn Kathir (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=79).

Sorry for not being specific enuf... is inter-racial thus inter-faith relationship... Chinese gal and Malay guy... pening

Leona123, thanks for replying... will check my mailbox