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Ukraine is f#cked!!!!

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Wed, 22 Jan 2014 9:20 am

Sergei82 wrote:Since yesterday police are permitted to use normal bullets instead of rubber ones in critical situations. I hope, it won't come to that.

You watch the 1 st video from my previous post. Much more "picturesque": firefighters helping burning alive police officers using fire extinguishers. Nice peaceful demonstration and definitely vivid pro-democracy movement! :o


Heavens, I hope not too... :(

Yes I did see the 1st video (just this morning). Dreadful scenes...

p.s. This is just a general observation, and not directly connected vs the Ukraine issue in any way.

In most protests that I have participated in, there are different strata of participants. From your old 'Aunt Edith' with her chair and blanket and Thermos of tea, to the p'd-off and p'd-up militant who is attending merely because he finds rioting, violence, and fighting the police great fun [refer to Euro-soccer hooliganism].

It can be impossible to separate the two types (refer to the mention in the Wiki article on 'kettling' on innocents being impacted). The violent ones however are the ones who tend to get all the headlines as the issue at hand is 'hijacked'.

God forbid they start using live ammunition. One would have thought baton rounds ('rubber bullets') against the prime instigators would be enough.

[I recall as a child a friend of mine had one (it probably was one used against Irish/IRA rioting). The thing was huge maybe 6" long/1" thick black rubber, and heavy, and it would have been shot from something like a grenade launcher. So people who have not seen one should not underestimate their capabilities].

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Postby Sergei82 » Fri, 24 Jan 2014 8:41 am

A new twist (I guess, such video may be removed from youtube shortly):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z0zD3pOG-Tk
I suspected there are plenty of imbeciles from both sides in that "revolution".

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Postby Barnsley » Wed, 19 Feb 2014 9:51 am

Things appear to have taken a turn for the worse overnight.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:11 am

Don't say anything: lots of dead from both sides - police and rioters.

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Postby scarbowl » Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:53 pm

Sergei82 wrote:It started with that: Ukraine joining EU.

But now it is just small fraction of extremists who arrange a real battle this Sunday. As you saw on youtube, they're out of control of their leaders already.

Police has all that. When this protest began, they used force trying to spread the crowd. Excessively. That was stupid, got condemned by international society, and those who gave the orders were arrested (would it happen anywhere in EU???).

Now police have order: to stand their ground. They have batons, but they can't use them - thousands of reporters are waiting to put the pictures of "police violence" online. They have shields, but using those resulted in Molotov cocktails and fireworks flying right inside the "turtle", so the hope is to stand unshielded so the crowd wouldn't dare to bluntly killing them. At least one of their water-cannon vehicles was hijacked by the mob and used against them. They sometimes use rubber bullets against the mob, but by the law they have the right to use real ones.
Yes, there is only one plan: hold the line, don't let the mob to remaining government buildings. Anything above that, and they will be accused in "using violence against peaceful citizens" in no time. US and EU are waiting for that with excitement: Syria #2 is another chance to strengthen their political and economical position in the world.

About Ukraine joining EU: it won't happen in the nearest future. EU recently "sold out" Ukraine to uncle Putin. :)


Sounds like Russian propaganda here. The EU was "sold out" by Yanukovych who was "bought out" by his rich Russian cronies. This is Russia playing its usual game. Russia and corrupt Slavs and various Mafia bosses don't want an EU friendly government in Ukraine and will stop at nothing to prevent it. Most can't even imagine why Ukraine isn't part of Mother Russia.

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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 19 Feb 2014 1:03 pm

Russia is the most caring neighbour of ours. Putin was deeply concerned from the bottom of his heart when it came to NATO, he is just as deeply concerned and caring now when it is about EU.

In fact, there are many "elements", especially in Crimean peninsula who disdain Ukraine (and Belarus for that matter) as an independent country and say there is only Russia, and we are all brothers!

I'm not pro-riot, not pro-Russia, I don't like current Ukrainian government, but the alternatives are worse...

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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:45 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hABr4t7Xnb0
The building in video is country's internal security (SBU - Ukrainian analogue of FBI) in one of Western Ukrainian cities (not Kiev).
Who shot - not clear… Very fresh video.

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Postby scarbowl » Thu, 20 Feb 2014 5:34 pm

Sergei82 wrote:Russia is the most caring neighbour of ours. Putin was deeply concerned from the bottom of his heart when it came to NATO, he is just as deeply concerned and caring now when it is about EU.

>snip
I'm not pro-riot, not pro-Russia, I don't like current Ukrainian government, but the alternatives are worse...
Your earlier comments are those of a Russophile so I find this contradictory.

Association with the EU has done much to reduce corruption, improve the rule of law, and provide for safer consumer products and working conditions in Romania, Bulgaria, and Croatia, for starters. There is every reason to believe it would offer better conditions for Ukrainians than would an alliance with Russia and Beloruss. It's the criminals such as Yanukovych which will benefit from that.

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Postby scarbowl » Thu, 20 Feb 2014 5:50 pm

As we see how reliable Russia is as a partner. Their purchase of the Yanukovich administration may end up as a bad debt for the Ukrainians.

From the Moscow Times:

Russia is a key supporter of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and said Monday it would pay out a second, $2 billion, tranche of a promised $15 billion aid package to the heavily indebted economy. On Wednesday, with Ukraine still waiting for the cash, the Kremlin appeared to be backtracking on that promise as Ukraine was convulsed by violence.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 20 Feb 2014 5:58 pm

The Russian Ruble has hit record low and is now categorized in the league of fragile emerging markets. EU v/s Russia, is there even a comparison? :???:

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 20 Feb 2014 6:30 pm

No, but there are probably like two generations of people who have some really serious problems to adapt to the post-communistic new era.

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Postby Sergei82 » Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:02 pm

Last edited by Sergei82 on Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sergei82 » Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:12 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVuqO9kNzWY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

"Rioters" are "greeted" in Kerch (city on Crimean peninsula). People in the East hate these fkrs: no need to understand Russian to see this! They yell reminders of dead young police officer who were armless (until the last day, of course when many of them were already dead) and followed their duty protecting the government building.
The video ends up with people shouting "Russia!" (Crimeans seriously talk about separating from Ukraine and joining Russian Federation)

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Postby Sergei82 » Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:26 pm

George Galloway's Sputnik: The West sticking it's nose in Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsBw0zjss8

This may sound a bit pro-Russian, but that's how all East, South and most of the central Ukraine think. Shame for EU and, unfortunately, for US as well.

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Postby Sergei82 » Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:04 am

Ok, now this it a real GORE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHpVZSxEW5M
(skip the speech of former president of Georgia from 2:40 to 4:10)

This was happening on February 18. These are "peaceful" protesters??!?!??!!
What is happening is there are police officers being attacked by all kinds of weapons, including firearms, while they have only shields and batons. Why? Because EU and US is insisting on maximum restraint - that's why. So they are just bluntly yanked from the group (like antelopes in Africa) and getting KILLED KILLED KILLED! (they have only shields, batons and some armor, moreover the order is to avoid beating the crowd, so they can't do much even with batons!)
Now why is that after this Ukraine started using combat weapons against "peaceful" rioters after so many police officers died???

I wonder, if anything like this happened in any country of EU or US for that matter (even in Singapore!), would police officers just kept outside armless dying one after another, protecting the government sector???

That is why it's a huge shame to all EU countries and US. Now I understand Syria from totally different perspective. The only thing left is start financing the rioters by US and EU, that will be bloodbath in Ukraine for years. I hope, my parents survive.

Like I said, what's happening on this video happened before those videos in my previous 3 posts and led to cops using firearms. Now how do you think, was it incorrect decision to give combat weapons to police officers?????


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