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Ukraine is f#cked!!!!

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Sergei82
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Ukraine is f#cked!!!!

Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:49 pm

Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkzi6-zz55M

And EU with US are trying to mess up with what is happening over there! In most of EU countries if rioters start beating and showering police officers with Molotov cocktails like in Ukraine, the police will deal with the riot briefly and violently. It is only in Ukraine police must do nothing and just get beaten. Because if they do at least something, US and EU will immediately bring funds to support extremists (rightful people against despotic government) - they love it!
Btw, opposition itself denying any involvement in this. It is arranged by only 1 extremist political party. Other opposition leaders tried to stop the mob and got water gun straight into them. Many police officers are hospitalized in critical condition. At least one of them was held as hostage beaten and with broken ribs (one opposition party - not "evil" government - arranged his escape by dressing him in civilian clothes and letting through the mob).

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:59 pm

Here goes better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wkwwWKSzc

Some people from the crowd who realized what's going on, are trying to stop the faggots. No way it is possible!

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 1:44 am

Sergei82 wrote:Here goes better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wkwwWKSzc

Some people from the crowd who realized what's going on, are trying to stop the faggots. No way it is possible!


Is this your idea of an insult or smear? There are a lot of people on this board and elsewhere that understand homosexuality to be built in, not a choice, and your choice of words is right up there with the N-word.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 8:45 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:Here goes better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wkwwWKSzc

Some people from the crowd who realized what's going on, are trying to stop the faggots. No way it is possible!


Is this your idea of an insult or smear? There are a lot of people on this board and elsewhere that understand homosexuality to be built in, not a choice, and your choice of words is right up there with the N-word.



And even more so that think of cigarettes. :cool: I doubt the crowd was getting violent on smokers though.


To the original post, I'm not even sure what's going on. I see one youtube video of a violent protest. Without and background it's hard to say what's happening. They could be violent anarchists intent on murdering cops, or those cops could be murders themselves. Who knows from what's been presented.

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 9:10 am

It's the same issue that I was raising a topic about a month or so back.
Some people are not happy with the government.

But that bunch violently beating cops are from nationalists crowd (more like Nazis or skinheads). Very extremist. I remember years back their leader was proposing some legislation to take away some rights from Ukrainians whose native language is Russian (that would be me as well), thus dividing citizens in 2 classes.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/19/22358823-ukraine-protests-turn-into-fiery-street-battles

And here one of the opposition leaders is getting it from those whom he took part instigating:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/klitschko-kiev-protest-fire-extinguisher/

About my FG-word written under surge of emotions: the best thing can be done about it is of course emphasizing it in red and large font, quoting, and then re-quoting, so there is no point correcting it. Good "support" for people with non-traditional orientation. Am I right? :)

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 9:16 am

Sergei,

Is this people protesting to have the legal right to protest re: Ukraine joining the EU?

It would be grimly ironic, the state oppressing protest, whilst applying to join a democratic/'''free''' union of nations.

p.s. dreadful scenes in that video. The police seem completely unprepared, no shields (at least initially), no batons, no tear-gas, no water-cannon, no plan of how to take control of the situation. Just standing there 'holding the line'.

pps. http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/faggots.htm
'Birmingham and the Midlands are considered the home of Faggots in Britain'
Am I allowed to stand up in support of faggots? Or would that be really gay? Ooh la la, the joy and nuance of language! :-D

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 9:41 am

It started with that: Ukraine joining EU.

But now it is just small fraction of extremists who arrange a real battle this Sunday. As you saw on youtube, they're out of control of their leaders already.

Police has all that. When this protest began, they used force trying to spread the crowd. Excessively. That was stupid, got condemned by international society, and those who gave the orders were arrested (would it happen anywhere in EU???).

Now police have order: to stand their ground. They have batons, but they can't use them - thousands of reporters are waiting to put the pictures of "police violence" online. They have shields, but using those resulted in Molotov cocktails and fireworks flying right inside the "turtle", so the hope is to stand unshielded so the crowd wouldn't dare to bluntly killing them. At least one of their water-cannon vehicles was hijacked by the mob and used against them. They sometimes use rubber bullets against the mob, but by the law they have the right to use real ones.
Yes, there is only one plan: hold the line, don't let the mob to remaining government buildings. Anything above that, and they will be accused in "using violence against peaceful citizens" in no time. US and EU are waiting for that with excitement: Syria #2 is another chance to strengthen their political and economical position in the world.

About Ukraine joining EU: it won't happen in the nearest future. EU recently "sold out" Ukraine to uncle Putin. :)

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 9:44 am

JR8 wrote:pps. http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/faggots.htm
'Birmingham and the Midlands are considered the home of Faggots in Britain'
Am I allowed to stand up in support of faggots? Or would that be really gay? Ooh la la, the joy and nuance of language! :-D

:D
I will definitely try cooking that one! (just need to lean it down by removing some of the fat from the recipe)

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 9:47 am

And btw, current Ukrainian government is just as retarded as well, I'm not protecting them. That new legislation and the way it was voted in parliament and signed by our president is an outright insult for many Ukrainians. That doesn't justify beating, crippling and taking police officers as hostages.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:52 am

Thanks, most interesting!

I once (long ago, late 80s/early 90s) almost visited Ukraine. Then still an Iron Curtain country. I had a passing interest in 'stealth tourism'; visiting closed or vv restricted places (even places like Kaliningrad lol).

So Odessa was the plan, but sadly it never came about. Though some years later I did get to visit 'Little Odessa' (Coney Island*) ... itself a very interesting place, and so different from anywhere else in the region!





*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Beach

p.s. http://www.visitkaliningrad.com/ can't believe it... you can now visit as a tourist.... hehehe. That use to be a closed state, like North Korea also was...
http://www.konigsberg.ru/eng/kaliningra ... s-visa.htm Max stay 4 days on this tourist visa. Seems like they're tentatively promoting it as a long weekend destination, a la neighbouring Baltic Republics
Last edited by JR8 on Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:20 pm

Sergei82 wrote:US and EU are waiting for that with excitement: Syria #2 is another chance to strengthen their political and economical position in the world.


How so? Do you actually have any theories or anecdotes to support this, or are you just talking in anger since US and EU are supporting the side you don't?

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 21 Jan 2014 1:05 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:US and EU are waiting for that with excitement: Syria #2 is another chance to strengthen their political and economical position in the world.


How so? Do you actually have any theories or anecdotes to support this, or are you just talking in anger since US and EU are supporting the side you don't?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/01/20/346624/us-again-threatens-sanctions-on-ukraine/
http://euobserver.com/foreign/122798
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/838407.shtml#.Ut3-QLQRWUk
That was fast!

How come, for example, prerequisite to signing an association with EU and considering Ukraine to be democratic is freeing this person:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko
???
I do not think she should be released - she will instigate much greater riots. And there are objective reasons she is in jail, not what is popularized outside of Ukraine by some activists from the opposition. Especially stupid looks comparison of this woman to Ong San Suu Kyi. These kind of clowns look pathetic:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-clooney-releases-statement-supporting-664440

Other thing, Ukraine is by far not a small and not resourceless country and most of gas and oil industry in Ukraine is under US (and here go uncle Putin's animosities with US).

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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:48 am

Did you know that police officers burn pretty well when they are still alive? Take a look at peaceful demonstration of highly oppressed Ukrainian citizens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuO53xeZkm8&feature=player_embedded
(please, keep your kids and wives away while watching this video)

JR8, do shields help in this situation?

Here some less violent in English:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFesrg-idw

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 22 Jan 2014 8:39 am

Sergei82 wrote:JR8, do shields help in this situation?


I'd only watched the 2nd video you linked 'Here goes better', and had missed the original one. The issue seems to have changed somewhat through the topic.

In the 2nd video you have police apparently without shields or batons (or any other weapons) passively holding a line whilst under attack by a crowd. The crowd seem to be mostly throwing rocks (paving cobble-stones?). It was this video that surprised me, as the police seemed unequipped, and it would not appear that they would ever take control of the situation by these means.

It is interesting now, looking at your 1st linked video, and others on the web, that at points you do see police using shields and batons and forming defensive formations. A tactic that began back to Roman times... http://tinyurl.com/nkussdu But no of course, this won't help much against petrol-bombs.

The other videos also record far more violence, such as petrol-bombs and explosive charges. At this point I think I'd be expecting water-cannon, tear-gassing, baton rounds, and taking down the 'prime Movers'.

You'll perhaps imagine my surprise at the passivity in video#2, as in many countries the police have active tactics to control and bring to an end such situations.
Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling
---------------------------

Anyway, that was the basis of my comment.

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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 22 Jan 2014 9:01 am

Since yesterday police are permitted to use normal bullets instead of rubber ones in critical situations. I hope, it won't come to that.

You watch the 1 st video from my previous post. Much more "picturesque": firefighters helping burning alive police officers using fire extinguishers. Nice peaceful demonstration and definitely vivid pro-democracy movement! :o


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