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Racial zoning

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 11:23 am

JR8 wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:I did not expect JR8 could ever say something like that, considering how long he is on this forum and how active he is here...


Hehehe... when you're self-employed/work-from-home, it's nice to have a virtual office water-cooler :)

My local wife has nil desire to retire here (quite the opposite). I think this is a great place to spend some time, but like many people find it a place to come, work hard, progress your career, make some $, travel, and then leave.

I suppose for us the scales have recently tipped. When considering:
- reasons for being here
- prospects/opportunities here in the future
- quality of life
- cost of living here versus elsewhere
- two deaths and two major healthscares in the family this past year or so.

It's very easy to just coast along in life. No real plan, or goals, just work work work. I suppose this past year I've been rather forced into making some kind of assessment as to where we want to be headed next, and that covers everything else, as well as the geography.


If it's not too personal to ask, why did you come back then? You've alluded a lot to that you used to live in DE and just returned recently. If it's not work related and there was no desire, I don't quite get it. This is the last place I'd come to voluntarily stay if it wasn't for financially beneficial reasons.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 11:39 am

zzm9980 wrote: If it's not too personal to ask, why did you come back then? You've alluded a lot to that you used to live in DE and just returned recently. If it's not work related and there was no desire, I don't quite get it. This is the last place I'd come to voluntarily stay if it wasn't for financially beneficial reasons.


It is work related, I am 'The Trailing Spouse' hehe... I also have my own business, but it's quite hands-off and can 80% be done from anywhere that has e-mail.

We're sort of hanging on for one final posting out of here. If we get it, it's likely a pretty useful package, a last opportunity to put a little turbo-charged kick into the pension pot. So in an ironic way, the main reason for being here, is in the hope of getting sent elsewhere. But as time marches on, the willingness to wait, and blindly hope, dwindles.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:04 pm

movingtospore wrote:It still boggles my mind that the powers that be have conned the rest of the world into believing it's a "free market" here. Nuh-uh as my daughter would say. But it astounds me more that people put up with being told who they can and can't rent to by their government to this degree. I can see rules around not renting to illegal immigrants etc but really!


SG has made allies of the right people. What does it matter if the citizens have free speech when the government welcome half your navy to moor-up and exert regional power.
Most people have no choice; a problem with monopoly providers, especially when they happen to be the government :)

A lot here is micro-managed. The government perceive racial clusters as a threat to their authority. Ref: the 1960s Malay riots, bull-dozering of the Malay kampongs, dispersal of ethnic Malays across the island etc. Little India has just signed it's own death warrant on this matter IMHO. I have no doubt the government are studying how to 'politely' de-Indiafy Little India, preferably in a way that no one outside of that district will really notice. Bull-dozering Mustapha might get a few too many unwanted headlines...

You can get say $x in rent now, or perhaps $1.1x if you were free to rent your place to anybody. But that additional $0.1x comes with a perceived threat to the government. They own the freehold, so, enough said ... !

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Postby Hannieroo » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:12 pm

I think hdb should be non-rentable full stop. It's underwritten housing not a chance to line your pockets. Live in it or sell it. But reading that, it's just racist. Disappointing.

I was also under the impression you loved Singapore, JR8. I thought you were here from active choice.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:19 pm

Hannieroo, It's underwritten for the local 1st & 2nd time buyers, but how about for those who have bought resale HDB flats on the open market and paid a pretty penny for them?

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:53 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Hannieroo, It's underwritten for the local 1st & 2nd time buyers, but how about for those who have bought resale HDB flats on the open market and paid a pretty penny for them?


Yes, it's complicated isn't it.

What if you're true-blue SGns and get posted abroad. Cannot rent out your flat, just because it's HDB. Have to leave it standing empty? Isn't that a tax on mobility?

p.s. Yes I like SG a great deal. Living here for 3 stints rather evidences that I think ;) This time I'm not here through active choice, it's just how life's wider choices pan out.

Few expats come here and expect or wish to stay forever. Considering the line that is at some point inevitably (?) crossed is what interests me right now. Clearly it's difficult to define, akin to sitting in a casino during a good run, and judging when to take your chips off the table.

How do think you'll judge that point in time?

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Postby Hannieroo » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 1:51 pm

I don't know. I think I see it akin to the selling off of council housing but I suppose it's not quite the same.

Me? I move where I'm told to when I'm told to. I try not to love or hate where I am. Apart from that I just have a small list of places I will not live. I just take it as it comes, so it's not something I think about much. I just live my days.

I was just surprised because I honestly thought you loved it here and were done traveling. It wasn't a pick, merely a comment.

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Postby Hannieroo » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 1:58 pm

And as for when we'll get off the expat merry go round? Hopefully the pot will be sufficient by the time by the time youngest is out of full time education. I dislike the thought of not being able to have them live with me if they need to.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 2:21 pm

Hannieroo wrote:I don't know. I think I see it akin to the selling off of council housing but I suppose it's not quite the same.

Me? I move where I'm told to when I'm told to. I try not to love or hate where I am. Apart from that I just have a small list of places I will not live. I just take it as it comes, so it's not something I think about much. I just live my days.

I was just surprised because I honestly thought you loved it here and were done traveling. It wasn't a pick, merely a comment.


Selling off council housing (UK), aka Right to Buy was IMHO a good plan. It's a deep and broad topic, but where I started out in London was prime and early RTB territory, and it has changed from a near ghetto, to an extremely desirable place to live. Empower the residents, give them a stake in their community (at up to a 30% discount over market value), and suddenly the whole social dynamic changes from 'I am housed here, by some higher authority', to 'This street is my home, and in part it is what I make of it' etc...

Providing accommodation to people should never have been a part of a councils remit. It was an archaic throwback to WW1, and a perceived and noble obligation to house incomeless war-widows, and their families.

In later years, such responsibility was devolved (along with the council housing stock) to housing associations.

I'm not as clued up on housing here, but AFAIK you never get to own an HDB property, rather you have a lease on it. In fact wasn't this something that recently just started raising it's head, legislation to allow for statutory lease extensions, since these days the oldest HDB leases are getting down to c60-65 years, at which point they become pretty much unmortgageable?

Yes, to some extent life and direction is not in my hands either. But we make do as best we can. What places are verboten for you? I drew the line at Riyadh, Moscow, and Rangoon. And yes, we did subsequently get offered one of those...

I enjoy it here. But I have no desire to retire or see out my days here. It's not that nuanced is it? :) Don't imagine I don't enjoy it, or like it, it's just I don't wish or expect it to ever 'become home', I expect this applies to 99% of other expats here...

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Postby Hannieroo » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 4:27 pm

We always turn down anywhere that requires compound living, guards and more recently anywhere I'm not allowed to drive myself. The last one was something I thought I could live with but actually really chapped my balls when it was a reality. I can't think of a country that doesn't allow import of dogs but that would be a no too. But if any of those places were the only option I'd just pack up my boys and my dog and go to the UK. It wouldn't be a first.

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Postby Asian_Geekette » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 5:10 pm

After not renewing our lease for the JTC flat last year and staying with some very obnoxious housemates who are jerks, we found a nice HDB to rent. It's just for a year. Now I'm worried whether we will get renewed with all these restrictions.

Hubby is of different ethnicity/race and nationality than me. I wonder how this racial quotas will be implemented for inter-racial couples.
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Postby Sergei82 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 5:38 pm

First thing that came to mind of my Singaporean friend when I told her about all this crap: it's probably because of Little India.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 5:55 pm

There are two quotas. The first and largest is for Malaysians, the smaller quota is for NCs (Non-citizens) so all Non-Malaysians are lumped together. This will still pretty much break up the individual overseas diaspora concentrations.

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Postby Primrose Hill » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 6:20 pm

Like Hani & JR8, SG is good for now. It allows us to put into that pension pot. Is SG a place to retire and calling it the forever home? I don't think so. Is London the forever home? I don't think so either unless daughter lives there permanently.
It was easier, I guess, when we were struggling day after day on the northern line earning a crust. Now there's choices :shock:

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Jan 2014 6:51 pm

Primrose Hill wrote:It was easier, I guess, when we were struggling day after day on the northern line earning a crust. Now there's choices :shock:


This is like a theory from the philosopher de Botton, that the most liberated people in medieval England were the indentured serfdom. How so? Simply because they did not have the burden of expectations, hopes or dreams.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_Anxiety
You used to be able to find his TV series on Youtube.
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_acgqf27CIU
... etc...


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