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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 7:12 am

Actually, because of my education I am aware about image and sound recognition (same thing) to extent. Other than in sci-fi or just idiotic movies, the whole problem of image recognition can't even be formulated at the moment (and I doubt humanity will be able to do it), you can't even talk about implementation. I hope somebody tried, for example, to activate Microsoft product on the phone by voice. Works well? :) But yes - in one retarded movie I did see a brilliant piece of software which by a photo can go on-line and identify all the websites which mention or have pictures of the person. For commoners its exciting, for those who knows at least minimum about it - it makes you cringe.

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 8:44 am

Sergei82 wrote:Not shitting me huh? They track location and use it to target with ads??? Actually, the idea is quite plausible. But how abt human rights etc etc? If I go to OT, I'll be getting viagra ads?


The OS asks you if you want them to track your location. For ads, it's implied since this is Google we're talking about. But ads won't be based on your location alone as it will cross reference that with what you usually search for. If you keep searching for virility and supplements, you're kinda telling them you're interested in those.

It's not as bad as it seems for now--as long as you're outside the US. SE is right to be worried since companies are running around out of control there with everyone's data. For the rest of us, it's a matter of time--it may take years or it may take days.

It's like having a "friend." It's neat if he anticipates your needs and meets them before you voice them out (e.g. you've been complaining of the heat in the morning and three hours later, he offers you some ice cream). It's creepy if he suddenly shows up in your home unannounced and have prepared things (say, like your bathroom ritual paraphernalia) that you'd rather prepare yourself.

Thoughtful vs creepy: it's a fine line.

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 9:23 am

Sergei82 wrote:Not shitting me huh? They track location and use it to target with ads??? Actually, the idea is quite plausible. But how abt human rights etc etc? If I go to OT, I'll be getting viagra ads?


It's a cliched phrase, but very true:
"If you're not paying for it, you're the product."

Android is a free OS developed by a company that derives almost all of its profits from online advertising.

Go to this URL while logged in to your main Google account, to get an idea of the kind of information they know about you:
https://www.google.com/settings/dashboard

and then this:
http://www.google.com/ads/preferences

The second one, go down to "Interests". You can see two sets of data: What google has correlated about you based on what you provided to Google, and what it has based on your "web activity" (basically from tracking cookies).

I don't know for 100% fact they'll use your location in a gym as a basis for their ads, but I can tell you this happened to me:

I visited the same Starbucks every morning on the way to the office. After about a week, Google Now started listing commute and traffic times to it. No problem, I didn't care. But then I noticed *anytime* I used Google maps, it some of the 'landmarks' it would populate on maps anywhere I searched for were other similar coffee shops and cafes. Ones that when you clicked on, had a lot of Google reviews. That was definitely based on them knowing I went to Starbucks often, as I don't normally 'google' for coffee shops.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:09 pm

Sergei82 wrote:Actually, because of my education I am aware about image and sound recognition (same thing) to extent. Other than in sci-fi or just idiotic movies, the whole problem of image recognition can't even be formulated at the moment (and I doubt humanity will be able to do it), you can't even talk about implementation. I hope somebody tried, for example, to activate Microsoft product on the phone by voice. Works well? :) But yes - in one retarded movie I did see a brilliant piece of software which by a photo can go on-line and identify all the websites which mention or have pictures of the person. For commoners its exciting, for those who knows at least minimum about it - it makes you cringe.


You are sooooo f*cking wrong... image recognition is becoming more advanced by the day... and there is no question in my mind that along with all the new cameras, the Singapore police also have the technology for facial identification.

It's not perfect yet, and within two years will hit 90 to 95 percent. Remember, the Singapore gahmen has at least one reference picture of everybody.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:12 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I can just see it. Elderly gentleman, like SE, walks into a department store and walks down the aisle nearing the ladies foundation department and the video kiosk starts advertising porn & viagra because they recognize his face, know his gender, age and surfing habits. This could be embarrassing should there be females in the vicinity, unless he's in Walmart, then he'll just fit right in. :lol: :lol:

Oh, and the ticket is on it's way, but the hawk has just about caught that pigeon!


Ha! What's pissing me off is that I'm not getting ANY Google ads offering up slender, attractive Thai massage girls in the Houston area. I Google them every day, just so they know what I am looking for... what the hell!!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:42 pm

Think it might be the Viagra ads are cancelling the Thai brides out? :lol:

Maybe you need to make more trips to the banks instead of doing it online....

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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:43 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:You are sooooo f*cking wrong... image recognition is becoming more advanced by the day... and there is no question in my mind that along with all the new cameras, the Singapore police also have the technology for facial identification.

It's not perfect yet, and within two years will hit 90 to 95 percent. Remember, the Singapore gahmen has at least one reference picture of everybody.

Really? Are you a kind of an expert or at least know anything about it? Unless it is a simplified task (like fingerprint or text recognition), then if somebody creates a piece of software that will recognize Strong Eagle from his photo 1% of times correctly and consistently, will get a Nobel prize and will be revered for millennia. And that will be extremely complicated piece of software, most complicated than anything imaginable now.

Think about it: everything is digitized in your computer, so the photo is an array of numbers, while Strong Eagle is a physical entity with endless number of properties which are impossible to describe extensively even on atomic level. Moreover, most of those properties are changing every moment. Now tell me, among countless sets of arrays of numbers which subset should be recognized as Strong Eagle and which subset will not be Sergei82? What properties that array of numbers should have? In other words: Strong Eagle, what kind of array of numbers you are? :) Do you see what I'm saying? The whole notion of "general" image recognition is nonsense. Recognizing a known sets of geometrical figures works well though nowadays.

What you see now is some technology that is doing something (often can't even detect a location of your face on the picture) that is absolutely undefined. But advertising campaign around that is enormous, yes. According to Terminator movie, soon living machines will be walking among us!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:45 pm

Remember, around three years ago, I made the comment regarding image recognition software that had been developed in Australia and Singapore had a strong interest in it. Additionally, two years ago, they picked up a FWD who had been deported with facial recognition software which put paid to my earlier claim of Singapore have a working software. Added with the multiple government databases all now being linked together, it means they've got you coming and going.

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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 1:55 pm

Dun worry, if you're drunk and not sleeping for 2 nights in a row, even your own wife will not recognize you (no voice, no face). What to say about software?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 2:11 pm

You might be surprised as the algorithms, from what I understand, can interpolate based on measurements of the features of the face, e.g., distance between the eyes, the shape of the face, size and degree of protruberance of the ears, dimensions of the lips, nose in addition to other factors like coloration, which of course can vary, but could definitely tell the difference between a black and a tanned caucasian, if the other measurements were very close. Plus other variations of the theme that I couldn't even begin to think of. Most of those things cannot be changed unless using corrective surgery.

What is rudimentary today will be passe in 6 months time, advances are being made that fast. If you can get an app that scans chinese characters and give you the meaning in another language (even using handwriting) I'm sure that the rest is possible (I just down loaded that app last week).

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 2:19 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Ha! What's pissing me off is that I'm not getting ANY Google ads offering up slender, attractive Thai massage girls in the Houston area. I Google them every day, just so they know what I am looking for... what the hell!!!


https://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/answer/176004

:wink:

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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 2:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might be surprised as the algorithms, from what I understand, can interpolate based on measurements of the features of the face, e.g., distance between the eyes, the shape of the face, size and degree of protruberance of the ears, dimensions of the lips, nose in addition to other factors like coloration, which of course can vary...

You will be surprised to know that all this information is lost on a simple 2D photo. And that's all surveillance cameras may deliver now. ;)

Both 3D sphere and cylinder project into the same 2D circle. Who knows wth was that originally? Watch more movies...

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 3:01 pm

Sergei82 wrote:Really? Are you a kind of an expert or at least know anything about it?


So, I am not quite, but am extremely well versed and know scientists that are. Biometric authentication is something that comes up often in what I do.

Facial recognition with a clear well lit shot is *the most accurate and reliable* (in that it cannot be spoofed/tricked and is easy to perform) biometric authentication that exists. With consumer technology, they need a clear facial shot at least ~720p quality. (Basically, what's on your I/C) Like SMS said, it measures angles of your face, distances between eyes, etc. Thinks you cannot change unless you hide your face (or get smashed with a baseball bat :D )

That said, identification and tracking is the opposite of authentication. The user being authenticated wants to be seen. So yes, if you hide your face or wear a mask, you can't be identified easily. Makeup or a new haircut won't cut it. Contacts won't cut it.

What I'm talking about is consumer level technology about five years ago. I'm sure Western Governments and their lackeyes have access to much more advanced equipment, and even newer consumer stuff is likely better.

Source: Friends worked at former startup 'Pay By Touch' as security engineers and research scientists which did biometric payments. (before their CEO tanked the company :lol: )

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 3:02 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might be surprised as the algorithms, from what I understand, can interpolate based on measurements of the features of the face, e.g., distance between the eyes, the shape of the face, size and degree of protruberance of the ears, dimensions of the lips, nose in addition to other factors like coloration, which of course can vary...

You will be surprised to know that all this information is lost on a simple 2D photo. And that's all surveillance cameras may deliver now. ;)

Both 3D sphere and cylinder project into the same 2D circle. Who knows wth was that originally? Watch more movies...


Get your head out of your ass, you don't know what you're talking about. Advanced software can extrapolate depth easily by judging contrasts, light and shadow, etc.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Jan 2014 3:12 pm

I wonder how many degrees of rotation of the face would be needed to give a high end software enough data in a system to be able to take a few frames of a security camera to create a match-up. The case I heard about, a deported Philippino Domestic worker, was caught with a security camera at some point between the exiting of the plane and the immigration counter. I wonder if a preexisting flag in a database could be used to flag passengers arriving on flight manifests that fit a given set a parameters to flag a passenger for further identity checks. Let's face it, the software is good enough to target you without a photo fit other than looking like the hulk and cruising bodybuilding sites. :)


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