My job is going to Singapore

[noskich]

Ok, I don`t live in London and I take into account only net pay, eitherway the point is that the times when an average `Westerner` lived much better than an average Singaporean are long gone. I think the cause of the semantic confusion is also the change in the term `expat` which was previously reserved for hot shots and now pretty much any expatriate regardless of their salary.
While `Western` wages stagnated, Singaporean local ones increased, jobs got outsourced to Singapore and then out of it again. Therefore, the starting premise for some here is wrong, they still have an outdated picture in their heads.

[Beeroclock]

You seem a bit sensitive on this noskich, I didn't interpret this discussion as western lifestyle vs Singapore lifestyle, as I read it's about relative cost of living and what kind of lifestyle can be funded in Singapore within a specific budget.

[ecureilx]

Not sure why most ppl here automatically assume that if someone is coming from a Western country, say like in this case the UK, their lifestyle is for sure better than the lifestyle of an average Singaporean and thus costly to replicate in Singapore?

oh .. you mean foreigners are not paid much much higher than locals ?? you just did injustice to my imagination of "EXPAT"

Years ago, an Indian colleague used to forcefully tell people that he is an expat and when the natives give the look like he is NOT, he goes on to insist, that it's not the Caucsians who are Expats here ..

Oh, well, those were the days, when I went to a site wearing my Jacket and the guard asked me which part of Bangladesh I come from, and I didn't figure it out till much later, that, those days Bangladesh = construction crew .. and they were sure the guard decided I may be the Bangladeshi boss of the "crew"

Well, even now, I have tough time telling some natives, the years I have been here, I never been on Expat terms, and that means i pay everything out of my pocket.. still they sort of don't believe me ..

heck, one of the Govt bodies head hunted a friend's friend, and one of the requirements was he applies for PR as soon as he and his family is in SG .. primarily I figured out, to get off the Expat terms he gets, when he comes on board.

Oh, now there is not Expats here .. all are considered FT (including the guy cleaning my block .. I guess. .. talented, yah ?)

[JR8]

This poor chap, if he lives in London god forbid, half of his salary would vanish for a modest accommodation and the rest goes for food, transport and utilities.

Yah, London is so expensive because it's so dreadful, that makes sense. Everyone who can, incl most of the USSR billionaires, buy mansions there as, er, it's such a bad place

[ecureilx]

This poor chap, if he lives in London god forbid, half of his salary would vanish for a modest accommodation and the rest goes for food, transport and utilities.

Yah, London is so expensive because it's so dreadful, that makes sense. Everyone who can, incl most of the USSR billionaires, buy mansions there as, er, it's such a bad place

USSR ? During USSR, there were no Rich, all were equal, or so I was taught ..

[JR8]

USSR ? During USSR, there were no Rich, all were equal, or so I was taught ..

You're suggesting that the philosophical concept of communism works, in real life. Ha!

Even Cuban Airways sell Business Class seats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paris to Havana
Flight 1 Friday, January 24, 2014
Note: includes 1 technical stop(s) [Ha! Are they still refuelling in Newfoundland?!]

Airline: Cubana de Aviación CU441 e
Aircraft: Ilyushin IL-96 [Quality!!! Better than the Tupalov I went on]
Fare type: Business

Havana to Paris
Thursday, January 30, 2014
Fare type: Business

EUR = EuroPRICE
1 adult(s) = 7,574.77 EUR
---------------------------------------------


Bottoms up comrade!

[ecureilx]

I saw an IL 96, on Charter .. and realised while it maybe less fuel efficient vs European/US counterparts, it doesn't need air stairs, and can roll off unpaved surface and still be ready for operation ..

Strong, they did build them

For those who want to know, the IL 96 has built in air stairs, which open from the belly and Pax can load themselves directly to the Passenger deck ..

[zzm9980]

Not sure why most ppl here automatically assume that if someone is coming from a Western country, say like in this case the UK, their lifestyle is for sure better than the lifestyle of an average Singaporean and thus costly to replicate in Singapore?

Because it is. Average Singaporean lives in an HDB, which would be considered a significant downgrade to most westerns. Things such as hot water from the faucet, etc, are not deemed luxuries, but essentials in the west. In order to have things comparable to an average western apartment in Singapore requires moving into a very expensive condo meant to replicate a western experience.

Most people in the west, even in cities with good public transit, see a car as a staple in their life, not a luxury which may consume 1/3rd of their monthly salary (going by average Singaporean middle class wage).

The amount and variety of recreation in Singapore compared to a western country is much more limited, and of what exists is generally more expensive. (Cheap flights to SE Asian 3rd world countries doesn't count, as those are not in Singapore and really that gets old after a while too.)

I could go on, but won't bother. Gist is, for those from the west they are generally compromising their existing lifestyle or spending a lot more money here to replicate it.

[JR8]

For those who have never flown on a Russian made jet (and most won't), it is a hideous experience.

I think we spent most of the 18hr flight to Cuba parched to a crisp. Our eyes sort of dried up. We almost wished to die.

We just got royally pissed instead. And thanked God we'd packed about 5lbs of our own food n hand luggage.

Really. You think Lao or Vietnam Air is tough... phhh nothing compared to Cuban.

[zzm9980]

Really. You think Lao or Vietnam Air is tough... phhh nothing compared to Cuban.

Never flown Lao, but Vietnam Airlines is rather nice. The short hops are new ATR-72s, anything longer is generally a newish to new 737 or 777. It's not quite SQ or CX, but it is better than any other national airline in the region, including China and India. (Except now defunct-Kingfisher, those FAs were hot )

[JR8]

Internal flights in VN just filled me with terror. The screaming people, the ballgowns and tuxedos.

Maybe it's changed.

But I have no compelling need to go back to VN for maybe 20 years?...

89 - 95 - 08 ? > '30

[ecureilx]

But I have no compelling need to go back to VN for maybe 20 years?...

89 - 95 - 08 ? > '30

mm... maybe zzm9980 doesn't have much of a choice there ?? LOL

From what i know, VN and Jestar pacific have no old Russian Gear anymore ..

if you want the Russian gear, you can charter, and i Know a mob who did that, just to experience flying in a Mil-8 and an AN 24 .. .. rough riders ..

[the lynx]

Lao Airline crash October 2013: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Airlines_Flight_301

Vietnam Airlines is much better than Lao Airline!

Backpacked in Laos last August. Yeah the domestic flights are in ATR72 model while the regional ones are in A320. I took A320 from Vientiane to Singapore.

ATR72 was the scary bit. When I started my backpacking trip, I was supposed to fly into Luang Prabang via Hanoi, first via Vietnam Airlines, followed by Lao Airline using the domestic carrier, hence ATR72 (codeshare).

Typhoon Jebi-Nari was already upon Hanoi when I arrived and good thing the flight to Luang Prabang was cancelled because of the weather. That ATR72 could never survive that weather! Vietnam Airlines decided to put me up in a hotel in Hanoi for one night and connected me to their own flight (instead of Lao Airline's) the next day.

Two months later, a ATR72 by that airline crashed into Mekong river in Pakse, due to Typhoon Nari. Everyone in that plane died. Freaky. I could have been on that flight if I had chosen to backpack in Sep-Oct instead of Aug.

But I can never imagine Cuban flights.

[JR8]

My Lao/VN internal flights (the first round) were '94/95.

Cuba c. 1992

Quite terrifying within the scheme of things

-----
aka
------

It was amazing visiting say Cuba and Laos back then. Just ridiculously communistic eye-openers. Great for an aspiring 20-something traveller. But would i want to do those journeys again, via those means, ... no way... oh no...

[ecureilx]

ATR72 was the scary bit. When I started my backpacking trip, I was supposed to fly into Luang Prabang via Hanoi, first via Vietnam Airlines, followed by Lao Airline using the domestic carrier, hence ATR72 (codeshare)..

if you think an ATR is scary, try in a twin piston engined BN, or a Czech Let (which literally bounced off the runway during every approach / landing, when I flew .. ) ..

Atleast the ATR is French Made (or is it now Airbus A72 ?? )

BTW, for those who are keen, there is talk of unifying the numbers of EADS Helicopters with Airbus naming .. so a EC 135 may become an Airbus 135 - suddenly every helicopter pilot may become an Airbus pilot .. or so the joke goes ..

PS: a liberal thought goes on that the US is to blame for Cubans flying antique kit, just like the Iranians, endangering lives, due to the Ban on export of US made items ..

Anyway, let's get the thread back on track ..