Singapore Expats Forum

Two Employment Passes possible?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
User avatar
martincymru
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu, 16 Oct 2008
Location: out & about

Two Employment Passes possible?

Postby martincymru » Sat, 04 Jan 2014 4:14 pm

My EP application is pending.
However another Employer has offered me random freelance, perhaps 2 days per month only, on self employed basis. Will do the work on my day off, Saturday.

Is it possible to have 2 EP's? One is via my Employer and the other via a new Ltd Co which I understand I need to set up and who will then sponsor me.

Employer income 8k firm, Ltd Co 2k month (unpredictable).

MoM website does not assist me.

This arrangement may give me some form of safety net in case things do not work out with my new Employer and I can easily promote my new/existing business.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34783
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 04 Jan 2014 4:36 pm

Nope. No can do. Foreigners only allowed a single EP at a time. Full Stop. Sucks, but what to do? It's their country. Can you imagine the furor over a FT "taking the jobs away from "2" locals! :?

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Sat, 04 Jan 2014 8:40 pm

Do you need the second EP? I mean if the ltd co is owner by you, can leave the money in the company or draw a directors fee, instead of employing yourself and taking as salary? Just a thought I'm not an expert on this, maybe some others will comment. Of course you would need to make sure such arrangement suitable with your employer and doesn't breach contract or EP terms.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34783
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 04 Jan 2014 11:04 pm

Strong Eagle will probably see this this evening at some point and chime in. He's the business guru here. But he's now on a different time zone as he's in Houston.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9810
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:56 am

Beeroclock wrote:Do you need the second EP? I mean if the ltd co is owner by you, can leave the money in the company or draw a directors fee, instead of employing yourself and taking as salary? Just a thought I'm not an expert on this, maybe some others will comment. Of course you would need to make sure such arrangement suitable with your employer and doesn't breach contract or EP terms.


so let me rephrase this ..

I work for company A, but am a director in Company B, and will channel my work to Company B (my own company .. )

Is it legal ? I don't know

Do you have to notify company A of your private venture ? YES

Will Company A agree to you freelancing if it is a related industry ? NO

Will company A agree to you freelancing, if it not a related industry ? Mostly likely - still NO

Will Company A use this as excuse when they find out, to kick out you ? Damn sure 99% companies here will do it .. unless you are the most and only talented guy in the company

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 11:49 am

ecureilx wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:Do you need the second EP? I mean if the ltd co is owner by you, can leave the money in the company or draw a directors fee, instead of employing yourself and taking as salary? Just a thought I'm not an expert on this, maybe some others will comment. Of course you would need to make sure such arrangement suitable with your employer and doesn't breach contract or EP terms.


so let me rephrase this ..

I work for company A, but am a director in Company B, and will channel my work to Company B (my own company .. )

Is it legal ? I don't know

Do you have to notify company A of your private venture ? YES

Will Company A agree to you freelancing if it is a related industry ? NO

Will company A agree to you freelancing, if it not a related industry ? Mostly likely - still NO

Will Company A use this as excuse when they find out, to kick out you ? Damn sure 99% companies here will do it .. unless you are the most and only talented guy in the company
yes agreed it needs careful checks and declare any potential conflicts of interest to get employers permission, regardless of how you structure it. I was just trying to point out if going to the bother of setting up a company for this, then why is the second EP still necessary.

User avatar
martincymru
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu, 16 Oct 2008
Location: out & about

2 EP's

Postby martincymru » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 2:56 pm

If I have 2 part time jobs, both Employers fully aware/agree, will this mean 2 EP's?
//

I have no experience in these matters but I understand that I still need an EP from the newly set up Ltd Co.

Btw My new Employer has ageed for me to set up my own Ltd Co and do freelance work 2-3 days per month (as employee of the newly set up Ltd Co.) for another unrelated Company.

The reason for my posting is that if, for whatever reason my new Employer is unable to obtain an EP for me (application was submitted last week) then I can fall back onto the Ltd Co (as Employee of) since the new Employer (now Client) may be prepared to engage me on self employed basis.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9810
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: 2 EP's

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 3:11 pm

martincymru wrote:If I have 2 part time jobs, both Employers fully aware/agree, will this mean 2 EP's?
//

I have no experience in these matters but I understand that I still need an EP from the newly set up Ltd Co.

Btw My new Employer has ageed for me to set up my own Ltd Co and do freelance work 2-3 days per month (as employee of the newly set up Ltd Co.) for another unrelated Company.

The reason for my posting is that if, for whatever reason my new Employer is unable to obtain an EP for me (application was submitted last week) then I can fall back onto the Ltd Co (as Employee of) since the new Employer (now Client) may be prepared to engage me on self employed basis.


are you answering OP or throwing a new question ? I am a bit mixed up ..

btw, working as 'self employed' for one company while under another company's pass - is - ILLEGAL

same for freelancing while in EP ..

and just that a lot of people are doing it doesn't make it legal ..

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Re: 2 EP's

Postby Beeroclock » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 3:55 pm

ecureilx wrote:
martincymru wrote:If I have 2 part time jobs, both Employers fully aware/agree, will this mean 2 EP's?
//

I have no experience in these matters but I understand that I still need an EP from the newly set up Ltd Co.

Btw My new Employer has ageed for me to set up my own Ltd Co and do freelance work 2-3 days per month (as employee of the newly set up Ltd Co.) for another unrelated Company.

The reason for my posting is that if, for whatever reason my new Employer is unable to obtain an EP for me (application was submitted last week) then I can fall back onto the Ltd Co (as Employee of) since the new Employer (now Client) may be prepared to engage me on self employed basis.


are you answering OP or throwing a new question ? I am a bit mixed up ..

btw, working as 'self employed' for one company while under another company's pass - is - ILLEGAL

same for freelancing while in EP ..

and just that a lot of people are doing it doesn't make it legal ..


he is the OP..... ecureilx's warning is very valid, refer also here

ftopic57327.html

User avatar
martincymru
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu, 16 Oct 2008
Location: out & about

Postby martincymru » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 9:10 pm

My Employer informed me 4 hours ago that my EP is approved.

Let's say I wish to set up, in addition to the above, (as a Director or employee) a Ltd Co then can I do so?
(ignore hours per week/income etc. - I could be passive so to speak).


I am a little confused as to whether this is possible (note "possible" is phrased by me as "legal/bona fide" so no need for me to expressly state this fact, especially on this forum!).

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10834
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:57 pm

martincymru wrote:My Employer informed me 4 hours ago that my EP is approved.

Let's say I wish to set up, in addition to the above, (as a Director or employee) a Ltd Co then can I do so?
(ignore hours per week/income etc. - I could be passive so to speak).


I am a little confused as to whether this is possible (note "possible" is phrased by me as "legal/bona fide" so no need for me to expressly state this fact, especially on this forum!).


According to ACRA regulations, anyone can form a pte ltd and anyone can be a shareholder (bankrupts, etc excluded). So, there would be no legal restriction for you to create your company since you have your EP. You could be both the shareholder and “A”
Last edited by Strong Eagle on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9810
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 07 Jan 2014 9:38 am

Strong Eagle wrote:Overall, though, what you want to do is not permitted. Many folks have asked the same question... even professional folks who would like to moonlight at a bar.


I hope OP gets it finally .. unless he has made up his mind to do what he wants to .. :)

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10834
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:38 am

There is one other, legal alternative. If the company that got your EP is OK with you freelancing, have them do the invoicing and then remit the proceeds to you.

They get a bit of extra business... admittedly at low margin unless they stick it to you, and you get paid through your EP company. I wouldn't body shop someone like this for less than 25% of the proceeds, though.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9810
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:06 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:There is one other, legal alternative. If the company that got your EP is OK with you freelancing, have them do the invoicing and then remit the proceeds to you.

They get a bit of extra business... admittedly at low margin unless they stick it to you, and you get paid through your EP company. I wouldn't body shop someone like this for less than 25% of the proceeds, though.


I explored this with my then employer, before I got out of EP .. well, the employer wanted to cut 50% for admin cost .. yah, I know, a 2 $ company with 5 head count, saw me as another revenue stream ..

Solution ? I didn't do any Freelance :)

User avatar
martincymru
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu, 16 Oct 2008
Location: out & about

Postby martincymru » Sun, 12 Jan 2014 1:31 pm

Thanks Strong Eagle and others for comments.

( Recap: Sg Company A – Employee/EP. Sg/UK Company B – Freelance )

Points:
My PEP expired last Aug 2012 so option, EP to PEP, not possible.
Yes, get Company A to invoice Company B is an option assuming the economics stack up.

Question to Strong Eagle:
Company B does have a UK office. Is it legal then for me to do the work as such (1 day per month) in Sg and for them to pay me in sterling in UK and for me to report this income to UK tax office? I would need to register for self employment in UK? Since I am tax resident in Sg then would this open a can of worms in the sense of “not worth all the bother”


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests