Riot in Little India

[the lynx]

Goodness gracious, I took my parents to Little India just a couple of hours before that thing happened! And we were right at that junction where the accident/riot happened!

Looking at how crowded Little India gets on weekends, I'm surprised they allow vehicles to ply through the area, especially large vehicles along Serangoon Road.

[Wd40]

It was raining badly on sunday since afternoon, otherwise, I bet there would have been a whole lot of more people in that area.

[morenangpinay]

just saw two special ops vans going by the area today.
anyway since its out in the news, i heard from people yesterday that the victim was pushed by the lady. he fell and the bus ran over him while he was down. so that's basically the story among the Indians in the area. i don't know if its true.

but its kind of true maybe if they had been treated better, they would have acted differently. I think they have this "me against the world" idea so they bonded together to get even with the driver...they probably thought the victim won't get any justice. i mean how long does it take for a worker to get compensated for being injured at work?some don't even get any compensation and they just get sent home according to a few reports on the newspapers previously.

[AngMoG]

Let me see, so you guys are saying that there will be no riot as long as employers treat their workers better. It is nothing to do with culture, habit, mob behavior and drinking. Did riots happen in India because of bad treatment by employers?

You betcha, that some riots there happen because of bad treatment of employers. Of course, riots happen there for all kinds of reasons.

Look, I am not defending the greedy employers. I also believe this excuse about not giving payslip is cow excretion. But don't you think it is a little premature and presumptuous to state with any certainty the real cause? 1 of those apprehended is a PR by the way, not a FW. So was it due to high property price and him not being able to buy HDB before 3 years?

These people are far away from home, away from their families and work is tough. They are alone. There could be problems at home. Even if their employers treat them better, higher pay, the condition will still be tough. People do breakdown and get emotional after a few drinks.

It is true that some may have problems at home, due to their long absence. However, looking for a root cause (assuming there is only one, sufficiently broad) we'd be looking for something that:
1) Is shared by a majority of the rioters
2) Would cause sufficient emotional disturbance in the rioters that it can lead to what happened
That one of those apprehended is PR adds nothing to the argument. He could have his own frustrations, sympathizing with the workers' plight, or simply follow the mob.

Problems at home? Probably some have, but many most likely do not. In any case, not sure why they would unload frustrations about problems at home towards uniformed officers; frankly, it'd be more likely for them to assault women in that case.

I would say it is not premature to come to the conclusion that the continuing treatment of foreign workers as sub-humans by employers and a lot of other people is the cause. That was the one thing from last night's TV talk that I would have to agree with: the anger was directed towards figures of authority also because they see figures of authority to be the problem.

So when we are looking for the root cause, the obvious "causes" are most likely to be contributing factors or catalysts:
- Ready availability of less expensive alcohol
- Congregation of a large group of people in one place
- Poor enforcement of traffic rules
- Lack of secure road crossings in the area
- "Culture" that the workers bring from their home countries with regards to rioting (dangerously close to slip into racism, this part of the argument)
(Some of) Those are the ones being targeted now, in a likely attempt to calm down emotions in the short term. They will probably work to some extent. But none of these are likely to be the root cause, as they do not have the potential to cause such strong emotions, and have been there for years. And that also means that addressing those does nothing to solve the underlying problem. Workers will simply congregate and drink somewhere else, and those further restrictions placed on them may well just further fuel their resentment.

Something in the workers' environment has to cause and build up such resentment and unhappiness in them, that they unload their frustrations towards police even though they must know the consequences. For those who choose to not look away, it is quite clear where that resentment comes from: Employers who exploit the workers in all kinds of ways including pay deductions for this and that, as well as little to no recourse by workers for such mistreatment. Combine this with general treatment of those workers as sub-humans by a lot of people. Problems with their families back home (caused by the distance, among other things) may well add some extra frustration to the existing mix.

This environment, in my opinion, is the root cause. You can go further to examine what causes it, such as the weak labor laws, weak enforcement, procedures favoring employers, greed (of employers), long time away from their families. Some of those could be addressed, and cause the root cause to diminish. Others will be more difficult to tackle. But one thing I know for sure is that addressing only the catalysts or symptoms is not going to work in the long run.

[Wd40]

Did you guys read the comments on TRE on the latest riot article. Really amusing comments for a change

The one I like the most: "Finally both Giants India and China have conducted their lessons to us and show us the way forward"

There are other comments but I dare not type here. This one is subtle, yet communicates the message

[Barnsley]

Did you guys read the comments on TRE on the latest riot article. Really amusing comments for a change

The one I like the most: "Finally both Giants India and China have conducted their lessons to us and show us the way forward"

Oddly enough for a change two or three comments were quite sensible.

Just read on asia one that the Police have released that the guy who got run over was drunk, and he also dropped his trousers at some point.

My view of the whole episode is that the Govt doesnt look to be interested as why the riot took place.

[the lynx]

The assaulted bus conductor - poor thing!

http://wanbao.omy.sg/local/story20131209-18121

[JR8]

X9:
‘Culture and mob behavior does not seem that addressable. Restricting the movement and prohibition is like healing the symptoms not the causes. It is a pretty clear pattern I mentioned earlier that the groups that feel somehow withdrawn from the society tend to get together in public areas. You see it for FDW, you see it for FW as well. Coincident?’

Interesting point. You also get socialising by nationality where familiar F+B/culture is nearby. Lucky Plaza, Little India, Bugis (what’s left of it), the Thai mall down on Beach Road, the Burmese by Peninsular Plaza etc... even Afro-Carib behind Mustaffa!

PNGMK:
Gahman don't kill little India please!

The news has gone around the world, and the government surely are not going to stand idly by and allow the risk of it happening again. They also have to demonstrate clearly to the population as a whole that people who do such, get well and truly whacked (in cas any other sections of society get ideas). Not only are those arrested going to ‘get it in the neck’, I suspect there might be an additional show of authority to remind everyone who is in charge here, and the consequences of disobedience. I don’t see the demise of Little India (for tourists), but I expect they’ll find a way to stop FW gathering there.

Edit to add:
Barnsley:
Just read on asia one that the Police have released that the guy who got run over...dropped his trousers at some point.

If it was before the incident he'd have been arrested, and if it was whilst trying to get on the bus, it is an allegation and not a fact. I have a feeling a PR campaign is underway....

[AngMoG]

Did you guys read the comments on TRE on the latest riot article. Really amusing comments for a change

The one I like the most: "Finally both Giants India and China have conducted their lessons to us and show us the way forward"

Oddly enough for a change two or three comments were quite sensible.

Just read on asia one that the Police have released that the guy who got run over was drunk, and he also dropped his trousers at some point.

My view of the whole episode is that the Govt doesnt look to be interested as why the riot took place.

Well, for once TRS posted a truly despicable article on this... http://www.therealsingapore.com/content ... indian-fts



And no, that is not a "De" missing in the title....

On the other hand, there is also a brilliant satire piece: http://www.therealsingapore.com/content ... telligence

[PNGMK]

Did you guys read the comments on TRE on the latest riot article. Really amusing comments for a change

The one I like the most: "Finally both Giants India and China have conducted their lessons to us and show us the way forward"

Oddly enough for a change two or three comments were quite sensible.

Just read on asia one that the Police have released that the guy who got run over was drunk, and he also dropped his trousers at some point.

My view of the whole episode is that the Govt doesnt look to be interested as why the riot took place.

Well, for once TRS posted a truly despicable article on this... http://www.therealsingapore.com/content ... indian-fts



And no, that is not a "De" missing in the title....

Oh Jesus wept.

[x9200]

X9:
‘Culture and mob behavior does not seem that addressable. Restricting the movement and prohibition is like healing the symptoms not the causes. It is a pretty clear pattern I mentioned earlier that the groups that feel somehow withdrawn from the society tend to get together in public areas. You see it for FDW, you see it for FW as well. Coincident?’

Interesting point. You also get socialising by nationality where familiar F+B/culture is nearby. Lucky Plaza, Little India, Bugis (what’s left of it), the Thai mall down on Beach Road, the Burmese by Peninsular Plaza etc... even Afro-Carib behind Mustaffa!

This is mostly, I think, culturally driven so there should be some cross-section of the society classes over there. For FDW/FW this seems a mono-class.
It more resembles creating an ad-hock enclaves (group security/confidence driven?). The cultural factor is still there but if it was predominant it would not only be gatherings of FDWs.

[morenangpinay]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 31856.html

singapore open to idea of housing fw in offshore islands

really?

[AngMoG]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 31856.html

singapore open to idea of housing fw in offshore islands

really?

Out of sight, out of mind... problem solved?

Maybe have patrol boats around the island, so people do not just ... leave. Maybe also add some special clothing so they are more recognizable; orange seems fashionable

[Barnsley]

Did you guys read the comments on TRE on the latest riot article. Really amusing comments for a change

The one I like the most: "Finally both Giants India and China have conducted their lessons to us and show us the way forward"

Oddly enough for a change two or three comments were quite sensible.

Just read on asia one that the Police have released that the guy who got run over was drunk, and he also dropped his trousers at some point.

My view of the whole episode is that the Govt doesnt look to be interested as why the riot took place.

Well, for once TRS posted a truly despicable article on this... http://www.therealsingapore.com/content ... indian-fts



And no, that is not a "De" missing in the title....

On the other hand, there is also a brilliant satire piece: http://www.therealsingapore.com/content ... telligence

Lordy Lord ..........

[x9200]

Interesting hybrid article.
http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/12/10/th ... this-riot/

Like typical TRE and not a typical TRE in one. Also the comments.