investment adviser needed

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Mutisso
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investment adviser needed

Post by Mutisso » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 1:37 pm

Hi
anyone would recommend a qualified, unbiased investment adviser in Singapore?
cheers
M
Thanks!
Mutisso

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 2:33 pm

Most investment advisors in Singapore are not rich. I am profoundly puzzled by this because if they are good at what they do, then why aren't they? :???:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Mi Amigo » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 3:10 pm

Good point SMS; there are some real cowboys out there. Some of them are just plain incompetent and some others are devious and have made quite a lot of money from naive investors who take their statements at face value. Rule 1 - do your own research to back up anything you are told by an 'adviser'. Rule 2 - don't buy (or invest in) anything if you don't actually understand what it is and what the risks are.

Having said all that...

Mutisso, I have used the Fry Group over the years and found them to be decent and reliable. Of course they will almost certainly earn commission if you decide to make an investment, but they are upfront about this and will tell you in advance how much they will earn for their work and advice.

http://www.thefrygroupsg.com/
Last edited by Mi Amigo on Sat, 07 Dec 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be careful what you wish for

Mutisso
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Post by Mutisso » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 3:30 pm

yes I know what you both mean... I have been through a few investment advisers in China (name the company, I've either spoke with them or worked with them a while...) and 1 out of 8 stands out as actually working for you vs. fattening their commission with as many (random) trades as possible.... or trying to push dubious investments like shopping mall rental in Canada or apartment leasing in UK.
thanks for your advice. MOD NOTE: Solicitation removed
Thanks!
Mutisso

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Wd40
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Post by Wd40 » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 5:04 pm

In my opinion, the idea of an investment advisor is misunderstood. Investment advisor is someone who know what different products are out there, what the risks are and can advise you what is suitable for your risk profile. Nothing more than that.

Investment advisor cannot make someone rich. Leave alone Investment advisor, even a fund manager or a stock research analyst only rarely beat the market. If market is bad, they do bad and still they are not considered as doing a bad job, as long as they beat the benchmark, relatively.

So, In my opinion, Investment advisor's is needed only for those people who dont even know what a stock means, what a fund means or what a bond means. If you know what each of these means, what the relation between bond prices and interest rates is, then you dont need an investment advisor.

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Post by JR8 » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 7:44 pm

Yes I tend to agree with WD40 above.

You don't need to do too much research, or have too much understanding to know that most 'personal investment advisors' sell you what suits them, and for a commission (the max they can get from you).

If you want it literally unbiased.... then the route would usually be, an advisor NOT earning fees/commissions right off the products they're selling you. I.e. you go to a recommended financial advisor and the starting point is 'Right, I'll pay you $500 for you to profile me (my life goals, assets, liabilities etc), and give me broad investment advice, explain how and why, and the options, that suit my stated objectives'.


A lot of people don't realise that if you invest in a Mutual Fund/Unit Trust, that that pays the broker maybe 2.5-3% commission, for every year you hold the position (it's called 'Trailing Commission'). You're working as hard to put his children through school/uni, as your own. Wunderbar! lol...

If ever there were a case for plain index trackers (and slightly more considered variants thereof), this is surely it ...

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Post by Beeroclock » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 9:06 pm

Agree with previous few posts. The phrase unbiased investment advisor seems like an oxymoron. Perhaps only if you make it fixed fee basis with no commissions, ie they just advise and you enter the investments yourself.

Sometimes I do accept the cold call / free coffee invite, just to see what they have to say. they also tend to propose using tax havens, isle of man etc. I told the last guy I don't want to go there, and he says anyone who doesn't minimize tax is stupid... Are you calling me stupid? End of meeting about 2 minutes later hahaha.

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Post by x9200 » Sat, 07 Dec 2013 9:50 pm

Sounds like the infamous wealth management guys.
Side question: how do you call somebody who could advise on potential investors of you emerging business?

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Post by Beeroclock » Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:15 pm

Not sure I understood the side question correctly, but sounds to me like investment banking or management consulting, their mergers and acquisitions dept? Not that I'd recommend either though, will easily burn a hole in your pocket! For smaller scale perhaps there are venture capital / angels ??

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Post by Wd40 » Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:18 pm

For the side question, I think you would hire a consulting company, the likes of PwC, E&Y etc, who help you decide what is the best way to go about raising capital, Private Equity or go public or just a loan etc.

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Post by Girl_Next_Door » Tue, 10 Dec 2013 9:22 am

I used to do compliance in several companies and was involved in reviewing the compensation package for the IAs. I would say most of the IAs are not really independent.

There are constantly internal campaigns promoting a certain product from a certain company (even if they are supposed to be representing several companies) and its all linked to their performance as well. Even the training materials are structured to teach the IAs to explain that they are independent, but in reality, we know that if there is an extra commission given if the IA sells X funds/X insurance products, they are just going to aggressively promote this product.

The only exception is private banking customers as their target/quota is based on AUM (asset under management) within the bank instead of sales of individual products. Even your mid-tier bankers (Premier banking or sort) are still product based sales target.

On wealthy & successful IAs, I know several extremely successful ones but they are very few. I defined successful as those who earns more than $1mio annually. Most of them are earning their commissions based on the big agency under them (over-riding the commissions of the juniors) as well as existing high profile customers. To be honest, they won't be interested in you unless you have at least a couple of millions in your bank account.

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Post by JR8 » Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:50 am

Interesting re: 'AUM'. That would be more neutral than paying-out based upon specific product fees/commissions.

In my old place, the 'FCs' (Financial Consultants) earned 'Production Credits', which translated directly into $salary. I.e. they were directly incentivised to produce as much commission as possible for the bank, and also themselves.

This was why I mentioned earlier, an inherent ongoing contradiction. FCs bound by internal rules to only sell clients products that met their long-term reviewed and recorded investment objectives (their 'profile') vs FCs wishing/trying to sell products that earned themselves maximum fees. We had a reporting system that monitored products sold vs recorded client profiles. And any FC caught selling 'out of profile' would get a serious public whacking/penalty.

In that place the FCs were mainly 'upper-class' well connected people [so different from debt and futures trading!! :)]. They were people hired for their social connections, rather than their intelligence or product knowledge. So it was very international, most nationalities from E-ME were represented. Essentially there was also a system for the FCs, you entered the client info into it, and it would tell you any given week what products might suit clients X, Y, and Z. No need to think, just be posh... lol

There was a spectrum of success, from those who were hired and never got a critical mass of income, and so got paid very little and quit. To those who started with a few big clients right off the bat, produced good results for those clients, who then x-referred the broker to their wealthy friends.

So say you might end up with one FC whose doing a decent job in cornering the private client investment business of the equivalent of say members of the Tanglin Club. Or a trio of Lebanese FCs who have cornered the wealthy Lebanese diaspora in London. We had another who had a client market/segment of Press/TV personalities, another, premier league footballers... and so on (at times when going through the front door, you'd do a double-take on some of the clients you passed coming in/out, but of course you could not acknowledge them or 'rush up for an autograph'* :))

It was interesting in a way, but felt veeeeeery slow after working on a trading floor. Also the FCs usually had a lot of snobby attitude, and an attitude that the middle/back office were against them, whereas on the debt floor your traders quickly learned that you were working with and for them.

Anyway enough, ho hum!


* One memorable incident. I went outside to have a smoke, and was chatting with a young and junior Ops clerk doing similar. We were making our way back in when up ahead of us by the entrance way pulled up a chauffered Bentley (not in itself at all unusual) and out stepped the England football team manager. Cue, the Ops Clerk immediately *yelling* 'ALRIGHT TEL!!!!!!!!' [Tel being the the man's popular/media nick-name]/Cringe!! :shock: :lol:

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Post by PrimroseHill » Tue, 10 Dec 2013 3:09 pm

I have talked to The Fry Group and Henley Group out here and like the ones in UK, I felt pretty disheartened.
I all my years working in the industry, I have gotten several so-called health checks over the years other than AMEX, no one had come close. Everyone is bent on selling me something- whether it was IHT insurance to wraps.
Seriously, since I am in the industry, should they have at least gotten to what I actually wanted from them and give me a proper unbias advise that's not focus on selling.
Years and years ago, I came across this client file that I was reviewing- I was a hack in those days, this older man, had virtually no money left with the exception of his pension pot, which was not much. Rather than the IA telling him to do nothing or just income draw down on his pension or whatever other solution, the IA suggested that this older guy should sell his pension pot and buy an annuity with it and it was for a pitiful small income.
Years later, I was hired to spring clean and breathe new life into this dept, I looked into random client files - one of them had over GBP2m, little old lady and he has "managed" her assets and she was done to GBP500k left, she sent in numerous letters asking for explanations and visits, but because she has only half left, she was not entitled a visit.

Yes, these IA are hireed for their connections - Eton, Malborough etc rather than their brian cells.

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Post by JR8 » Tue, 10 Dec 2013 5:02 pm

... and hence why I am now my own self-investing 'financial advisor' (have been since I quit the industry, and hence released from being compelled to use my employer, as my broker).

Takes a bit of time to research and figure the ins and outs, but it's really not rocket science, it just needs a little commitment and time. Anyone smart enough to become an expat (of any colour and stripe), is smart enough to do the same.

Pretty soon you'll see that most FA's are just spivs in shiny suits, trying to meet their goals, over and above your own.

p.s. When you look at what their annual fees amount to, compounded over maybe 25 years, it can be truly staggering. That can be what you're handing them, for what was originally 10 minutes of partial and self-interested advice. I'd not suggest it, unless you have extremely complex family financial affairs and/or no time...

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Post by PrimroseHill » Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:31 am

Talk about nicely dressed pinstripe suited and booted older gents that's related to Baron So and So, Lord So So. To qualify for 1 visit annually with him personally, you have to have GBP1m with him. If you are lucky, you may have him over at your home for tea. :lol:
It is shocking at the levels of churning that goes undetected, the files that I have read over the years, beggers believe. Hence staying well clear of private clients or IA roles - " I sell off your Royal Dutch Shell and bought you BP shares due to the Iraq war".
A lot of this investing malarky are common sense. That's why I have a SIPP account rather than letting the brokers do it for me and charging me an annual 3% admin charge and the churn on the account. So, what if I have lost money on my SIPP? If I have lost, it is due to my own stupidity not due to someone that needs to make the bottom line figures, so that he make the bonus pot.
Risk apetite versus income, long term, short term or medium term outlook. then spread those risk around

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