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The subtle erosion of equality

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Splatted
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The subtle erosion of equality

Postby Splatted » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 12:03 am

in light of 15 companies recently punished for discriminatory advertising, has anyone here actually taken the time to look through the TAFEP advertising guidelines?

http://www.tafep.sg/fairemployment.asp?subid=3

What puzzles me is that it's now illegal for an employer to advertise in their job ad "Singaporean and SPR preferred", in other words the LEGAL residents of the country....

BUT

"Only Singaporeans" is perfectly fine.

It just baffles me.

And this follows a string of other recent but subtle changes in other areas of the law throughout the year. For instance, if you are a SPR renting a property in a HDB block, you can now only stay there a maximum lease of 18 months before forced to move.

This is to prevent formation of so-called "enclaves" or "ghetto's".

it just feels like that whoever is making these rules is simply appealing to the schadenfreude's in the community who take delight in seeing others a little more miserable.

sorry i just have to vent. Slowly over time, this place will be unlivable by the time I have kids.

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Re: The subtle erosion of equality

Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 8:19 am

Splatted wrote:And this follows a string of other recent but subtle changes in other areas of the law throughout the year. For instance, if you are a SPR renting a property in a HDB block, you can now only stay there a maximum lease of 18 months before forced to move.

This is to prevent formation of so-called "enclaves" or "ghetto's".


I thought the same, but this is inaccurate. The landlord just needs to apply for a permit from HDB to allow their units to be rented to foreigners. The same tenant can remain. Previously the landlord had to do this anyway, but I think it was a three year permit. The shorter term is to allow HDB to re-assess the percentage of foreigners:locals to make sure it isn't turning into the ethnic ghetto more frequently.

Personally I blame those Indians in Tampines. :D Sorry had to toss that in to a thread about equality :D

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 9:01 am

There is no constitutional guarantee of racial equality in Singapore. In fact LKY stood up in parliament a few years back to remind some young whipper snapper NMP of this fact. Without that.... well this is what happens.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 9:12 am

I thought all HDBs rental leases have been reduced to 1 and half years, not just to foreigners or PRs. But I agree with all the points of the OP and have mentioned it before.

Have a look at the school fees:
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2012/ ... s-2013.php

Seriously $500 for foreigners in primary school? I would rather spend couple of hundred more and put my kids in Indian intl school.

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Postby aster » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 9:46 am

Wd40 wrote:Have a look at the school fees:
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2012/ ... s-2013.php

Seriously $500 for foreigners in primary school? I would rather spend couple of hundred more and put my kids in Indian intl school.


What makes you think that int'l schools are better? I would much rather send my kids to a local school than those playgrounds for the not too bright, commonly referred to as "international schools." At least when it comes to the first couple of years...

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 9:51 am

Erosion? yes.

But I don't think there's anything subtle about it. Heck; most things are anything but subtle.

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Re: The subtle erosion of equality

Postby AngMoG » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 9:56 am

Splatted wrote:in light of 15 companies recently punished for discriminatory advertising, has anyone here actually taken the time to look through the TAFEP advertising guidelines?

http://www.tafep.sg/fairemployment.asp?subid=3

What puzzles me is that it's now illegal for an employer to advertise in their job ad "Singaporean and SPR preferred", in other words the LEGAL residents of the country....

BUT

"Only Singaporeans" is perfectly fine.


I took a look back when it was published, and was already taken aback then. PRs have a legal right to stay in Singapore (while their PR is valid, that is), and in any country I know of, PRs are equal to locals in the job market legally, other than the usual preference for hiring citizens of course (which exists in most countries outside Singapore). Of course, SG gave out way too many PRs, and very quickly too, back before 2009. So their way of fixing that situation is to give PRs some disadvantages, to get PRs to either move to citizenship or out, and to assuage citizens. And in the process of this, they are producing some collateral damage.

To put it very bluntly: it is their country, and their rules. Either accept it or move on.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:04 am

aster wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Have a look at the school fees:
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2012/ ... s-2013.php

Seriously $500 for foreigners in primary school? I would rather spend couple of hundred more and put my kids in Indian intl school.


What makes you think that int'l schools are better? I would much rather send my kids to a local school than those playgrounds for the not too bright, commonly referred to as "international schools." At least when it comes to the first couple of years...


Not saying Int'l schools are better. But they are better, if you are unsure how long you will be here. Its easier to adjust when you go back, if you are in int'l schools.

Now especially after they make locals schools so expensive and everything else so difficult for foreighners and PRs, its better to take the safer approach of putting in Int'l schools than local schools.

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Re: The subtle erosion of equality

Postby Wd40 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:26 am

zzm9980 wrote:
Splatted wrote:And this follows a string of other recent but subtle changes in other areas of the law throughout the year. For instance, if you are a SPR renting a property in a HDB block, you can now only stay there a maximum lease of 18 months before forced to move.

This is to prevent formation of so-called "enclaves" or "ghetto's".


I thought the same, but this is inaccurate. The landlord just needs to apply for a permit from HDB to allow their units to be rented to foreigners. The same tenant can remain. Previously the landlord had to do this anyway, but I think it was a three year permit. The shorter term is to allow HDB to re-assess the percentage of foreigners:locals to make sure it isn't turning into the ethnic ghetto more frequently.

Personally I blame those Indians in Tampines. :D Sorry had to toss that in to a thread about equality :D


Not just Tampines, lah. Simei, Pasir Ris and bedok too. East Coast also. But Tampines and Simei take the cake.
When my previous house was sold and my lease terminated, I was so hell bent on living in Tampines, infact close to the existing house, that I took a rent increase from $2k to $2.4k(although the new house is bigger).

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Postby aster » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:49 am

Wd40 wrote:Not saying Int'l schools are better. But they are better, if you are unsure how long you will be here. Its easier to adjust when you go back, if you are in int'l schools.

Now especially after they make locals schools so expensive and everything else so difficult for foreighners and PRs, its better to take the safer approach of putting in Int'l schools than local schools.


I reckon it will be easier to adjust from a local school as your kid will be well ahead in terms of scholastics. Moving to an int'l school would then be a piece of cake, easy-peasy...

We can certainly agree on the issues with getting a place in school as a foreigner (or in many cases PR). Singapore must be the only "developed" country in the world where the entire country has run out of school places for primary one, all taken be it north, south, east or west. So much for thinking ahead and planning...

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Postby movingtospore » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:17 am

aster wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Not saying Int'l schools are better. But they are better, if you are unsure how long you will be here. Its easier to adjust when you go back, if you are in int'l schools.

Now especially after they make locals schools so expensive and everything else so difficult for foreighners and PRs, its better to take the safer approach of putting in Int'l schools than local schools.


I reckon it will be easier to adjust from a local school as your kid will be well ahead in terms of scholastics. Moving to an int'l school would then be a piece of cake, easy-peasy...

We can certainly agree on the issues with getting a place in school as a foreigner (or in many cases PR). Singapore must be the only "developed" country in the world where the entire country has run out of school places for primary one, all taken be it north, south, east or west. So much for thinking ahead and planning...


It's all a matter of persepctive as to what's better or not. Some International Schools are absolute rubbish, some are very good. Some local schools are good, some are terrible. We gave up on local school after not being able to find a place anywhere on the island except one school out by the airport. If the system was that hostile to us to begin with I figured it wasn't going anywhere good. And I also was more than a little worried about my kids turning out like many of the drones I'm surrounded by here...

I know some people who managed to get into to fairly balanced local schools and quite like it though.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 12:44 pm

Companies have already started adopting this "Only Singaporeans" practice.

There are 35 ads in monster with "Only Singaporeans"

http://jobsearch.monster.com.sg/searchr ... mit.y=-290

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Postby Splatted » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 12:46 pm

AngMoG wrote:
To put it very bluntly: it is their country, and their rules. Either accept it or move on.


Yup, and most likely it will come to this. Waiting out 3 more years before I can sell my HDB (without penalty) and go back to Australia.

This country does its best to attract health professionals like myself here to help look after its sick, frail, and dying. Only to reward us by treating us as second class members of society.

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Postby aster » Fri, 29 Nov 2013 7:36 pm

movingtospore wrote:We gave up on local school after not being able to find a place anywhere on the island except one school out by the airport. If the system was that hostile to us to begin with I figured it wasn't going anywhere good. And I also was more than a little worried about my kids turning out like many of the drones I'm surrounded by here...


How far was the school from where you live? I take it this is what the MOE offered you after you tried balloting and this didn't work out?

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Postby beppi » Mon, 02 Dec 2013 6:55 pm

aster wrote:Singapore must be the only "developed" country in the world where the entire country has run out of school places for primary one, all taken be it north, south, east or west. So much for thinking ahead and planning...

I wonder how that goes along with the perennial whine about Singaporeans not having enough children ...


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