Starting up banking

[jumpinfrog]

Hi Everyone,

So I have not long arrived in Singapore, enjoying a few days holiday before starting work. I will need to open a bank account here with a few requirements and am hoping I can draw on some of the plentiful experience here to best fulfil my needs;

As mentioned, I'm staying in a hotel currently, and by the end of the week I'm hoping to have found somewhere to stay for approx. 1 month while I look around for something more permanent (probably close to kampong Ampat). That is to say, I will be moving around a little bit over the coming weeks.

My basic requirements/questions are:

1. If I choose a particular chain, can I open in one branch and easily transfer to another once I move, or does it matter?

2. Best banking to make and receive international money transfers

3. I will be travelling outside of SG, mostly business - do any banks restrict access outside the country, and do any cater more toward international use?

4. Ease of use/access, I know some ATM's are more prevalent than others, but maybe certain banks are worth less ATM access when compared to the account service?

5. Are credit cards generally available through most banks, and advisable?

6. Lastly, any general info would be great! I've frittered around several sites and got a bit lost with all the different current accounts, so any advice welcome

Thanks!

[Dert42]

Just need to chime in with my ongoing campaign against CitiBank.

They are simply terrible. Both the US side and the Singapore side.

[JR8]

1. If I choose a particular chain, can I open in one branch and easily transfer to another once I move, or does it matter?

>> I'm not sure if it actually matters. This time we opened our accounts at a bank branch in Marina Bay (IIRC), simply because they were open on a Saturday and others were not. We've never needed to return there.


2. Best banking to make and receive international money transfers

>>> I've had accounts with DBS, Stanchart, and now POSB. The question holds little validity. Most banks are equal. If you want advantage on international wires there are ways to do it 20*over versus, the bank you are with.

3. I will be travelling outside of SG, mostly business - do any banks restrict access outside the country, and do any cater more toward international use?

>> Not aware. If in doubt call the bank/card issuer and simply advise them you're off travelling to XYZ this week.

4. Ease of use/access, I know some ATM's are more prevalent than others, but maybe certain banks are worth less ATM access when compared to the account service?

>> Don't see a question there. But look into 'ATM5' (wiki it)

5. Are credit cards generally available through most banks, and advisable?

>> [shut-down mode.... ]

6. Lastly, any general info would be great! I've frittered around several sites and got a bit lost with all the different current accounts, so any advice welcome

Thanks!

[Girl_Next_Door]

Just need to chime in with my ongoing campaign against CitiBank.

They are simply terrible. Both the US side and the Singapore side.

I agree that the call center is not ideal and there are the usual hipcups (like all banks in Singapore) but I do find Citibank convenient for traveling. I don't like to carry a significant amount of cash, and I can always find a Citibank ATM machine to withdraw cash (no charges except for exchange rates). If you are transferring within Citibank accounts (globally), its free as well.

[Dert42]

Just need to chime in with my ongoing campaign against CitiBank.

They are simply terrible. Both the US side and the Singapore side.

I agree that the call center is not ideal and there are the usual hipcups (like all banks in Singapore) but I do find Citibank convenient for traveling. I don't like to carry a significant amount of cash, and I can always find a Citibank ATM machine to withdraw cash (no charges except for exchange rates). If you are transferring within Citibank accounts (globally), its free as well.

You will see 10 DBS atms for every 1 Citi ATM.
Their call center is terrible and staffed with people I can't understand.
The staff physically present at the banks are clueless.

I have caught them in lies multiple times on both sides of the ocean. The global transfer to one Citi account to another is free, but from my experience, not even worth free.

I could go on, but I'll just leave it as a simple, I recommend not doing business with them.

[Girl_Next_Door]

Just need to chime in with my ongoing campaign against CitiBank.

They are simply terrible. Both the US side and the Singapore side.

I agree that the call center is not ideal and there are the usual hipcups (like all banks in Singapore) but I do find Citibank convenient for traveling. I don't like to carry a significant amount of cash, and I can always find a Citibank ATM machine to withdraw cash (no charges except for exchange rates). If you are transferring within Citibank accounts (globally), its free as well.

You will see 10 DBS atms for every 1 Citi ATM.
Their call center is terrible and staffed with people I can't understand.
The staff physically present at the banks are clueless.

I have caught them in lies multiple times on both sides of the ocean. The global transfer to one Citi account to another is free, but from my experience, not even worth free.

I could go on, but I'll just leave it as a simple, I recommend not doing business with them.

I have attended three talks organized by MAS on internet banking. Each time, the head of IT of DBS is invited, and each time, his opening line is always "There is a crisis in the bank today. There is a DBS phishing site but...." I don't know if its his "thing" to keep talking about it, but it doesn't gives me a lot of comfort, knowing that the head of IT is constantly talking about being attacked by cyber criminals.

While I can agree that there are a lot more DBS atm machines in Singapore, that only facilitate local withdrawals. Personally, I prefer to withdraw cash from OCBC or Citibank because there is never a queue. There are ATM machines around places I frequent, so it works for me. I rarely have to call the bank and never have to visit a physical branch, so maybe you have a completely different banking needs than me.

[zzm9980]

Not to argue with Dert42, as I don't doubt his experiences were genuine, but mine with Citibank are generally positive (comparatively for Singapore):

You will see 10 DBS atms for every 1 Citi ATM.

I think girl_next_door meant when you travel outside Singapore; Citibank is *everywhere* and you'll pay no fees and a relatively fair exchange rate at their ATMs.

In Singapore, Citibank has a shared ATM network with multiple other banks in Singapore, so it's easy to find an ATM you can use:

What is atm5?

atm5 is a shared ATM network among the following participating Qualifying Full Banks (QFBs):

- Maybank
- ANZ
- Citibank
- HSBC
- Standard Chartered Bank
- State Bank of India

Plus, Citibank themselves has an ATM in almost every single MRT station. DBS and POSB ATMs are interchangeable, but you'll also often find that no matter how many POSB/DBS ATMs there are they all have 5-10 minute queues.

Their call center is terrible and staffed with people I can't understand.
The staff physically present at the banks are clueless.

This is true, but is also true for most organizations in Singapore. Clueful people (in person or call centers) are extremely rare in this lines in Singapore.

The global transfer to one Citi account to another is free, but from my experience, not even worth free.

It's worked flawlessly for me going fromm Singapore to the US. I use it all of the time for amounts under $10k USD in a single month. Maybe there are troubles with larger amounts. I had one problem transferring from the US to SG recently, and I just had to call someone in the US for some kind of security check. It was sorted out after about 10 minutes on the phone.

[jumpinfrog]

Wow thank you everyone for your feedback!

It seems there are pro's and cons across the board, just one thing -nobody ever seems to mention maybank, is there good reason for that?

[zzm9980]

Wow thank you everyone for your feedback!

It seems there are pro's and cons across the board, just one thing -nobody ever seems to mention maybank, is there good reason for that?

Not really, but your requirement of international travel limits you for easy of ATM. Almost any ATM anywhere outside will take SG cards, but they'll hit you with huge fees unless you use the bank's own ATM. I such a case, Citibank and HSBC are the most 'international' of the SG banks. You'll also find the occasional DBS and OCBC to a lesser extent in SE Asia, China and HK, but even then not as much as the big 2.

[Dert42]

I don't doubt one could have a positive experience with Citi. I have had multiple negative. Personal recommendations mean a lot to me, so I just make it a point to let people know Citi screwed up badly and multiple times with my money. But the worst part is the lies(plural!) I caught them in.

Also I didn't mean to endorse DBS, just pointing out their ATMs are way more prevalent.

[aster]

DBS is a pain when it comes to long lines at branches and ATMs.

Personally I don't like Citi either, not a single thing I like about them to be honest.

When it comes to branches, it doesn't matter which one you open your account with. You can still go to any other branch to get whatever you want done.

Personally I'd give UOB a try, especially since they currently have some of the best CCs for getting air miles (DBS would come second best). Plus you cannot get any better than their ATMs or rather ATM network, as UOB and OCBC customers can use each other ATMs.

Standard Chartered would be decent if you could get World Partner status with them, which you have to ask about at the branch because they seem to be paranoid about putting up info online (as it's NOT available for Singaporean nationals). If you do have WP status then transfers in other currencies are much cheaper, no penalty fees for not giving them a change to convert currencies, etc.

Should you need the bank to do currency conversions for you then DBS has by far the best rates in Singapore, nothing comes close to them. Well, maybe HSBC, but still not as good. Everyone else is terrible in this regard.

[zzm9980]

Standard Chartered would be decent if you could get World Partner status with them, which you have to ask about at the branch because they seem to be paranoid about putting up info online (as it's NOT available for Singaporean nationals). If you do have WP status then transfers in other currencies are much cheaper, no penalty fees for not giving them a change to convert currencies, etc.

Isn't this similar to Citibank Gold or HSBC Premier, where you need to stick so much cash into accounts with them that the small amount you may save on transfers isn't really material?

Interesting point on the currency conversion though. I've noticed Citibank's is erratic, based on credit card purchases at least. It seems when you make charges in AUD, USD, or other 'first world'(?) currencies, the exchange is relatively fair. When I've done the same with CNY or INR (China and India), it's damn near extortion. Of course I'm not going to carry the equivalent of SGD thousands in cash when I go those places though, so I don't have a choice.

[aster]

Isn't this similar to Citibank Gold or HSBC Premier, where you need to stick so much cash into accounts with them that the small amount you may save on transfers isn't really material?

Interesting point on the currency conversion though. I've noticed Citibank's is erratic, based on credit card purchases at least. It seems when you make charges in AUD, USD, or other 'first world'(?) currencies, the exchange is relatively fair. When I've done the same with CNY or INR (China and India), it's damn near extortion. Of course I'm not going to carry the equivalent of SGD thousands in cash when I go those places though, so I don't have a choice.

SCB has something very similar to Gold/Premier and they call it Preferred. There is even an option to have this status without any substantial deposits if your salary is $72k+ and you take up a Preferred World Mastercard CC with them.

World Traveller is something different though and kept very low-key. As mentioned it's only available to EP-holders and PRs living in Singapore, and if you deal in various currencies then this status is much more important. It's very difficult to get the exact conditions though as there is nothing on their web pages to explain WT, no leaflets at the branch... and staff at every branch will miraculously come up with different ways on attaining this status.

As far as currency conversions are concerned, CCs are a bit different and live in a world of their own. Banks generally charge similar amounts, a lot also depends on the CC company itself as they have their own rates too (MC is usually best for overseas transactions). What you have to watch out for are these dynamic conversions abroad that try to charge you in your home currency - this is usually a bad idea and the rate is worse than just letting your own bank sort it out.

The real difference in currency conversion rates is when you simply want to change money say between your USD and SGD accounts. Here DBS is good, HSBC is decent, but most other banks are appalling.

[stuckmojo]

My 2 cents. I am an HSBC customer in the UK, so I thought it would be best to stick with them.

So far, the bank account and savings work ok.

The ATM situation is poor, though.

I am in fact thinking of opening another account with a local bank just for that, giros and other stuff.

It seems that banking here is somewhat 10 years behind the UK when it comes to technology and so on.

[zzm9980]

My 2 cents. I am an HSBC customer in the UK, so I thought it would be best to stick with them.

So far, the bank account and savings work ok.

The ATM situation is poor, though.

I am in fact thinking of opening another account with a local bank just for that, giros and other stuff.

It seems that banking here is somewhat 10 years behind the UK when it comes to technology and so on.

Most things here are 10 years behind when it comes to Internet/online technology.

Did you look at that atm5 list? You can use ATMs from any of the following banks with your HSBC card. No extra fees, all shared network:

Maybank, ANZ, Citibank, HSBC, Standard Chartered and State Bank of India

Note that it only applies to your HSBC Singapore card. I made the mistake of using my HSBC US card in a Maybank ATM when I first arrived and paid a huge fee.