Singapore Expats Forum

Employment Fraud and FTs

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

IronMac
Regular
Regular
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon, 04 May 2009
Location: Singapore

Employment Fraud and FTs

Postby IronMac » Sun, 24 Nov 2013 8:59 pm

*Mods, not sure if this belongs here or not so please delete or move as necessary.*

On the HWZ forum, someone brought up the following case. VERY interesting!

Guys, on friday i sacked 6 pinoy nationals and 1 indian national at the MNC i work for fraud basically.

One of the pinoy that was sacked was a HR personnel (Pinoy),
another was an IT personnel (Indian National).

What happened was that these two clowns had colluded in hiring their own nationals (mainly pinoys) in the company.

Basically we had put up Job adverts looking for some people, now when the people sent the email, anyone that was singaporean was deleted, they kept only the foreigners (pinoys.)

The IT personnel was basically bribed by the Pinoy to delete the log files on our SMTP server as well, making it seem that no singaporeans applied for the job.

What the IT personnel does not know, i keep another log file separately (disguissed as a system file) sent to another server.

When i saw the log files did not match the IT personnel gave some
rubbish story only after i threatened to report him to the
police, he told me the story.

Basically the Pinoy hr had people from the phillipines apply for any openings in the MNC i work and deleted any resumes that were singaporeans and he managed to get 5 pinoys past me.

They work on the idea that he gives the job their first salary belongs to the Pinoy HR. The Pinoy HR then gives 20% of that to
the indian national to do cleanup on the server to clear traces.

The HR and IT guy were sacked without notice on Friday. The 5 pinoys that got in were also sacked. These were not small jobs but jobs that payed more than 6K/mth

Purpose i am making this post is so that you guys can be aware
of the fraud going on in certain companies and games that foreigners are playing on singaporeans.

Also for employers, you should also have a copy of a log file only you have access to, this will help when the HR lies about no singaporean applied for the jobs

Sorry for the wall of text

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Sun, 24 Nov 2013 9:28 pm

Interesting indeed. If only these people would direct their creativity/effort for good instead of evil. Wonder if employer reported to police or just left it at firing them.

IronMac
Regular
Regular
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon, 04 May 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby IronMac » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 6:17 am

They left it at firing them.

Was thinking wouldn't MOM be curious as to why 5 FTs were fired all of a sudden after a month?

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34793
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 6:42 am

Who hired the HR person? They should have been sacked as well for not vetting and watching the Filipino HR more closely. Oh, he was a Singaporean, you say? Hmmmmm :-|

singapore eagle
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun, 30 Jun 2013

Postby singapore eagle » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 7:56 am

Well, if it's on hardwarezone, it must be true...

This is the third post of this ilk that I've seen since the start of the weekend (the other two involved a tale of a bangladeshi worker supposedly following a 13-year girl around, and a claim that a "FT" posted on STOMP about an NSman drinking water on the MRT.)

It's really bloody annoying: (a) because of the casual racism involved and (b) because people here have a habit of sharing and reposting the stories they read without ever considering that they might be complete and utter bollocks.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9301
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 8:51 am

Something like this has to be condemned and this should be the only comment. It is obvious the whole situation can be used and will be used by all sort of xenophobes but I don't see any point to argue about. It may only create an impression that this sort of behavior is somehow acceptable. If they did it they should be put to jail and later kicked out from this country.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 8:58 am

singapore eagle wrote:Well, if it's on hardwarezone, it must be true...


Exactly. I'm calling BS on the whole thing because the technical "facts" sound like pure and absolute bullshit.


A few things:

1) There are a lot more logs than just the smtp logs. A modern system like MS Exchange would make it extremely difficult to selectively go in and remove specific log entries without further audit trails showing that logs were altered. Someone with demi-god like skills could write a custom tool to get around a lot of those safe guards and audit trails to do this, but that same skill set would be infinitely more useful making a next-gen banking trojan or the next stuxtnet. A bunch of local IT guys wouldn't be doing this to help an HR buddy erase resumes for some shit job openings.

2) An MNC won't have their regional mail solely stored here. They'll have a global mail network.

3) An MNC won't have a random IT guy/manager running an internal audit for employee fraud and also be the same guy who did something like this:
What the IT personnel does not know, i keep another log file separately (disguissed as a system file) sent to another server.

assuming "that" even made sense, which it doesn't. (See item #1).

4) Even if this were all possible, any reasonably sized branch office for an MNC would have so many emails coming (10s of thousands a day or more), no one would go through this "log" and reconcile it, and then further determine the entries that were tampered with belonged to Singaporeans applying for some (likely shit) IT jobs and that the HR guy ran a cover-up.


I fear the only thing that may be true is that some true-blue retard fired seven people who may not have deserved to lose their job.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 9:08 am

It doesn’t really add up for me either...

- ‘The usual suspects’, races, as the miscreants, and poor SGns as the victims.
- Who interviewed these people (above and beyond HR)? Presumably they were qualified and the right team fit for these $6k+ jobs?
- How did they all get work employment passes within quota?
- It all sounds way too over-complex. Singling out one race, for no obvious purpose, involving and bribing other colleagues, deleting files, copying files, monotoring and comparing files etc etc. Most real crime is simple and opportunistic.

Wouldn't an alleged crime of this scale have made the newspapers? Meanwhile we are not even told who this 'MNC' might be. One wonders who writes this stuff, and for what purpose, it seems a lot of effort if it's just a kid having a pot-stirring whinge.

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 9:55 am

Must admit on first read I was open to believe, given the number of scams nowadays nothing would surprise me... But after seeing further comments I tend to agree this story seems unlikely. Also as there's no police report. I think any MNC by policy should need to report such activity, which goes beyond civil (breach of contract between employer/employee) and into the realm of criminal behavior (fraud, bribery, inadvertent breaches of employment laws, etc).

AngMoG
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed, 17 Apr 2013

Postby AngMoG » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:03 am

So, in the end it is:
- either an MNC with really poor control environment and lousy email technology OR
- it is BS

Occam's razor says hello. :cool:

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9301
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:07 am

This is how I see it from the technical POV and knowing every day IT literacy of people around: an IT guy was asked to come over to empty the trash bin on the HR guy desktop or inside the IMAP/exchange folder.

Still what was important in this story could be true. We don't know it. The modus operandi of local xenophobes is to feed on the bits and pieces rather than to fabricate the whole story like this down to its roots.

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Postby Wd40 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:11 am

HWZ is nothing but an extension of TRE. The story could be true and I wont be surprised. There are Indians too, that like to hire only Indians and they could do it all very well legally disguised, without deleting logs etc. They may just choose to call the candidates individually from a jobsite without posting the ad.
Last edited by Wd40 on Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:13 am

Beeroclock wrote:Also as there's no police report. I think any MNC by policy should need to report such activity, which goes beyond civil (breach of contract between employer/employee) and into the realm of criminal behavior (fraud, bribery, inadvertent breaches of employment laws, etc).


Good point.
I was a witness to a situation where a colleague here became involved some decidedly creative habits (civil, not criminal). I believe we were meant to report her to the police/authorities/regulators, but ultimately did not as it would have well and truly smashed her career 'rice-bowl'; Oh and plus our whiter than white employer would have probably got negative media from it.
But that situation involved three people, her, me, my director (i.e. only we three ever knew, NOT that me and my director were a party to her shenanigans), and was back in the days before mass e-media where little remains secret for long. So it was a case of telling her 'leave now/(today), and that's the end of the matter. Yes?'.
Last edited by JR8 on Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

singapore eagle
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun, 30 Jun 2013

Postby singapore eagle » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:16 am

The original thread on hardwarezone is depressing on so many different levels.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9810
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:52 am

me calling BS on this .. and adding on to one of the posters there in HWZ who said "if you don't report this to MOM, you are also part of the crime .. " :)

let's see if it goes to MOM, if at all it was true ..

Now with the upcoming internet web posting laws .. I wonder if those s**t stirrers can get away with this crap ..


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sj4963073 and 2 guests