Renouncing Singapore Citizenship - Urgent help me!

[Rahil Kapour]

Please help me in assessing the pros/cons:

Born in Boston, USA. Since then traveling on US passport. Parents came to Singapore when I was 6 mth old. Father working with an American oil company. They were Indian citizen and I was US. I studied in UWC Int’l school on a student pass. After 3 years or so parents converted from Indian passport to Singapore passport and I got the PR. Throughout studied in Int’l school. In 2004 father was transferred abroad and since then we were living overseas and never visited Singapore for 8yrs.

Early last year 2012 one of family friend advised father that Singapore allows dual citizenship for kids up to the age of 21. He applied for me and got it in 2-3 mths. He did not discuss with me but his intention was that I am getting option of another citizenship and by the time I am 21years I can decide which one to keep. However, mid last year 2012 he was transferred to Singapore. I resumed back in UWC Int’l school but with some difficulty as we had to write to MOE to allow admission in a Int’ls school (b/c of my Sing citizenship). Since ICA required Singapore citizenship certificate to be collected in person it was only done in Q4, 2012 when we had moved to Singapore. Later we received notice from ICA to collect Pink IC and my parents did that. But have not applied for Singapore passport for me.

Since my return on the ground in Singapore, I found out that actually I do not have option till the age 21 but I need to decide before I reach the age of 16.5 (in 2014) when I will be served the notice for NS. I am 15 now and still have 3 years of high school in Sing before I join a US university. By the time I finish my high school in Singapore (in June 2016) I will be 18yrs and 2mths. So as I understand the rule, even to complete my high school in Singapore I need to apply for NS deferment early in 2016 so that I can continue with my high school beyond the mandatory age of 18yrs of joining NS.

I have always intended to study in US university and do not wish to be delayed in admissions after my high school. I understand that if I secure admission in a foreign university I can apply for NS deferment but parents have to submit a S$75K bond. Then after completing my university I need to return for NS.

My father and I are having a big tiff since we returned and I found out all this. First, he never consulted me before applying and did second did not fully searched for all the strings attached with Singapore citizenship. He do not wish to provide a $75K bond for deferment as I am unlikely to return for NS once I complete my university. I appreciate good intentions of my father but this has resulted in a big mess.

My biological mother and father divorced long time back and she lives outside Singapore and fully supports my decision not to continue with Singapore citizenship and NS. Unfortunately, she was not consulted before application as my father has my sole custody.

A) I do not renunciate now. When the NS notification come in Q1 of 2014 (as I will be 16.5 yrs then), I acknowledge it. Apply in Jan 2016 for deferment, in order to continue with high school in Singapore ( as my high school will finish in June 2016 and I will be 18 yrs in Q1 of 2016). Then apply for deferment to continue with university study abroad (by June I would have secured an admission in US Uni to do undergrad). Persuade my father to submit the $75k bond required for deferrment. I will only be finishing university in Sept 2020 but will turn 21 yrs in 2019. So at that stage I can renunciate if I do not wish to do NS and return to Singapore. It will be fairer as I will be more mature at that time to take that decision on my own? If I renunciate at that time will the bond money of $75k will be refunded or forfeited? What are the possible pitfalls in this option?

B) I apply for renunciation of Singapore citizenship now, explain whole situation to Government; since I only got the Singapore citizenship early last year, have not got passport issued, have not benefited from Singapore local school or health subsidy etc.
1) What are the chances they will approve?
2) I got my Singapore citizenship when I was 14 so while they allow Exit pass before the age of 13, I could not have done so? Also I was not in Singapore when I got my citizenship early last year.
3) I understand that you must be 21 to renunciate and if you do earlier they just sit on application, drag the process till you are 18, and then force you to do NS?
4) Even if they approve, can they make it difficult for me to obtain student visa to finish my remaining 3 years at UWC school in Singapore?

C) If the above option is not possible then I can leave the country next year and join a pre-university school (prep school) to complete my last 2 years of high school and apply for renunciation from US? 1) That way my father do not have to post any $75k bond since I will be leaving before the NS call?
2) But I need to apply for exit pass? Right? Or can I go without exit pass and apply from abroad?

I do not have anything negative about Singapore and it is a great country but I do not want to decide now on which country to choose and if I have to decide now it will be most likely USA.

Young & confused, RK

[Wd40]

You mentioned you were away for 8 years, I am assuming that place was not US. So really, you dont have any ties with US. Its just that you happened to be born in the US and you got the US passport and you should thank your father for that. Your father also applied for the Singapore passport with all good intentions for you.

You have absolutely not ties in the US and you want to go there to do university, while you have spent years here on education. Whether fair or unfair, you have to do the NS now. Its just 2 years, in the grand scheme of things 2 years is nothing and you never know it might turn out to be positive thing that you did NS.

Just think if you were a born Singaporean, would you have a choice? No. So just fullfil your NS duties and then go to the US, you are free after that.

[zzm9980]

You mentioned you were away for 8 years, I am assuming that place was not US. So really, you dont have any ties with US. Its just that you happened to be born in the US and you got the US passport and you should thank your father for that. Your father also applied for the Singapore passport with all good intentions for you.

You have absolutely not ties in the US and you want to go there to do university, while you have spent years here on education. Whether fair or unfair, you have to do the NS now. Its just 2 years, in the grand scheme of things 2 years is nothing and you never know it might turn out to be positive thing that you did NS.

Just think if you were a born Singaporean, would you have a choice? No. So just fullfil your NS duties and then go to the US, you are free after that.

He's spent more than half his life outside Singapore also, so what ties does he have to here?

Rahil, unfortunately you're probably f-cked. In Singapore you're completely under your father and he makes decisions for you in this regard. So especially if he won't cooperate, you don't have a chance.

This is a long long long shot, but what citizenship is your mother? Is she also American by chance? Does your father have legal full-custody of you, or was it de-facto and legally joint custody? If I was in your situation and your mother is American and will take your side, I would go to the US Embassy. Tell them your father did this to you unwillingly, your mother (who must legally have at least partial custody for you to have a leg to stand on) doesn't want this, and you don't want this and see if they can help. Know that you'll be opening a gigantic legal can of worms for your father though.

Someone by the name of 'Mad Scientist' will hopefully show up and offer advice. Everyone else here (myself included) will give you opinions, but MS will be the only person who's advice in regards to how to deal with the SG Gov will help.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Please help me in assessing the pros/cons:

Born in Boston, USA. Since then traveling on US passport. Parents came to Singapore when I was 6 mth old. Father working with an American oil company. They were Indian citizen and I was US. I studied in UWC Int’l school on a student pass. After 3 years or so parents converted from Indian passport to Singapore passport and I got the PR. Throughout studied in Int’l school. In 2004 father was transferred abroad and since then we were living overseas and never visited Singapore for 8yrs.

Early last year 2012 one of family friend advised father that Singapore allows dual citizenship for kids up to the age of 21. He applied for me and got it in 2-3 mths. He did not discuss with me but his intention was that I am getting option of another citizenship and by the time I am 21years I can decide which one to keep. However, mid last year 2012 he was transferred to Singapore. I resumed back in UWC Int’l school but with some difficulty as we had to write to MOE to allow admission in a Int’ls school (b/c of my Sing citizenship). Since ICA required Singapore citizenship certificate to be collected in person it was only done in Q4, 2012 when we had moved to Singapore. Later we received notice from ICA to collect Pink IC and my parents did that. But have not applied for Singapore passport for me.

I'm not quite sure how you managed to get Singapore Citizenship without having to renounce your US citizenship. Normally Singapore only grants dual citizenship to minor children where one parent is a Singapore Citizen AT THE TIME OF BIRTH. Naturalized citizens are required to renounce upon approval for Singapore Citizenship, minor or not. Once you have collected your pink IC it makes no difference whether or not you have a Singapore Passport.

On second reading one thing is not clear. Is your biological mother a Singapore Citizen?

A dual citizen may have acquired citizenship by birth in a foreign country, by descent from a foreign citizen parent, or by naturalisation. Singapore citizens who voluntarily and intentionally acquire citizenship of a foreign country after the age of 18 may be deprived of their Singapore citizenship by the Government.[8] Foreigners who naturalise as Singaporean citizens are required to renounce all foreign citizenships.[9] Persons who are born outside of Singapore and have at least one parent who is a Singapore citizen may register with a Singapore consulate within a year to acquire Singapore citizenship by descent. However,such persons must renounce their foreign citizenship, if any, before reaching22 years old. The Constitution of Singapore is silent on a Singapore citizen who acquired citizenship by birth and is a foreign citizen by descent. So long as such a person refrains from exercising his rights of the foreign citizenship, the Government has no grounds to deprive him of his Singapore citizenship and he may hold on to dual citizenship

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic79410.html

Additionally, unless the whole family renounces, they will not even begin to think about it. Sounds like your father's typical Indian Greed has royally screwed you, just like so many before who also thought they could circumvent the Singapore Government and twist things to their own ways. You will not be the first son and you will not be the last son to have hard feelings because of being screwed by the parents on this issue. This is the result of greedily grabbing for everything they think they can get away with. I feel sorry for you for having to have to experience this solely due to your parents.

Since my return on the ground in Singapore, I found out that actually I do not have option till the age 21 but I need to decide before I reach the age of 16.5 (in 2014) when I will be served the notice for NS. I am 15 now and still have 3 years of high school in Sing before I join a US university. By the time I finish my high school in Singapore (in June 2016) I will be 18yrs and 2mths. So as I understand the rule, even to complete my high school in Singapore I need to apply for NS deferment early in 2016 so that I can continue with my high school beyond the mandatory age of 18yrs of joining NS.

I have always intended to study in US university and do not wish to be delayed in admissions after my high school. I understand that if I secure admission in a foreign university I can apply for NS deferment but parents have to submit a S$75K bond. Then after completing my university I need to return for NS.

My father and I are having a big tiff since we returned and I found out all this. First, he never consulted me before applying and did second did not fully searched for all the strings attached with Singapore citizenship. He do not wish to provide a $75K bond for deferment as I am unlikely to return for NS once I complete my university. I appreciate good intentions of my father but this has resulted in a big mess.

My biological mother and father divorced long time back and she lives outside Singapore and fully supports my decision not to continue with Singapore citizenship and NS. Unfortunately, she was not consulted before application as my father has my sole custody.

A) I do not renunciate now. When the NS notification come in Q1 of 2014 (as I will be 16.5 yrs then), I acknowledge it. Apply in Jan 2016 for deferment, in order to continue with high school in Singapore ( as my high school will finish in June 2016 and I will be 18 yrs in Q1 of 2016). Then apply for deferment to continue with university study abroad (by June I would have secured an admission in US Uni to do undergrad). Persuade my father to submit the $75k bond required for deferrment. I will only be finishing university in Sept 2020 but will turn 21 yrs in 2019. So at that stage I can renunciate if I do not wish to do NS and return to Singapore. It will be fairer as I will be more mature at that time to take that decision on my own? If I renunciate at that time will the bond money of $75k will be refunded or forfeited? What are the possible pitfalls in this option?

B) I apply for renunciation of Singapore citizenship now, explain whole situation to Government; since I only got the Singapore citizenship early last year, have not got passport issued, have not benefited from Singapore local school or health subsidy etc.
1) What are the chances they will approve?
2) I got my Singapore citizenship when I was 14 so while they allow Exit pass before the age of 13, I could not have done so? Also I was not in Singapore when I got my citizenship early last year.
3) I understand that you must be 21 to renunciate and if you do earlier they just sit on application, drag the process till you are 18, and then force you to do NS?
4) Even if they approve, can they make it difficult for me to obtain student visa to finish my remaining 3 years at UWC school in Singapore?

C) If the above option is not possible then I can leave the country next year and join a pre-university school (prep school) to complete my last 2 years of high school and apply for renunciation from US? 1) That way my father do not have to post any $75k bond since I will be leaving before the NS call?
2) But I need to apply for exit pass? Right? Or can I go without exit pass and apply from abroad?

I do not have anything negative about Singapore and it is a great country but I do not want to decide now on which country to choose and if I have to decide now it will be most likely USA.

Young & confused, RK

[Wd40]

Well, everywhere its the parents that make decisions for their kids. Can you decide where you want to be born or to whom you want to be born to? Can you decide which country you want to be born in and hence which country's citizenship you get?

In life you win some you lose some. If his father was not greedy at all, he would now have Indian Citizenship and the country where he has never ever gone, he would have had to move there. Atleast now he has the choice of staying in the country where he spent half of his life or in the country of milk and honey, after fulfilling the 2 years of NS obligation. His parents moved here when he was 6 months old, that is like he is almost born here and he is almost Singaporean.

[Beeroclock]

I'm no expert on NS but as for general pros/cons and based on your situation as described, I reckon if you drew up a list it will favour doing the NS. Seems like you cannot avoid the obligation without serious consequences for you and your family, including ability to enjoy Singapore in future. Attitude is everything and if you approach NS positively, does it really have to be such a bad thing? From reading your post it's clear you're a smart lad and will be able to catch up, so how bad is it really to delay UNI by a few years. A lot of people end up changing degrees/career paths, so a later start is not always a bad thing unless you're dead certain of your calling. Anyway that's my advice fwiw, personally I would bite the bullet, do the NS, try not to blame your father as he probably had good intentions although has clearly screwed up, and get on with life rather than make a bad situation worse.

[sundaymorningstaple]

His parents moved here when he was 6 months old, that is like he is almost born here and he is almost Singaporean.

What are you on about? How is he almost Singaporean? He spent 6.5 years of his first 7 years of life as an infant/toddler/primary schooler in Singapore and the next 8 years elsewhere before returning (say from the age of 7 to 14 which are really his formative years) before returning to Singapore. I'd say he really doesn't have much "draw" to Singapore at all as he's always going to an International School therefore, didn't mix with the locals at all. As his parents were from India, you can almost be sure they didn't even allow the mixing with local Indians either (is true today and surely was true back then as well). He was screwed by his father when he received his PR. He didn't need to wait for receipt of citizenship. The NS obligation was already there with the PR. The reason he has US citizenship is because he was born in the US and it doesn't matter what his parents are, he enjoys US citizenship by right of Jus soli

[Wd40]

His parents moved here when he was 6 months old, that is like he is almost born here and he is almost Singaporean.

What are you on about? How is he almost Singaporean? He spent 6.5 years of his first 7 years of life as an infant/toddler/primary schooler in Singapore and the next 8 years elsewhere before returning (say from the age of 7 to 14 which are really his formative years) before returning to Singapore. I'd say he really doesn't have much "draw" to Singapore at all as he's always going to an International School therefore, didn't mix with the locals at all. As his parents were from India, you can almost be sure they didn't even allow the mixing with local Indians either (is true today and surely was true back then as well). He was screwed by his father when he received his PR. He didn't need to wait for receipt of citizenship. The NS obligation was already there with the PR. The reason he has US citizenship is because he was born in the US and it doesn't matter what his parents are, he enjoys US citizenship by right of Jus soli

So what do you suggest, his father should have done? Not applied PR for him? But then in all the other threads you say that parents screw up kids life by leaving them on LTVP and when they grow up and have girl friends here they have to leave the country.

Now, his father has done the opposite. Yet he is wrong?

[sundaymorningstaple]

His father should have gotten him out of the International School for starters and had him mix with the locals in the local school system. His father should have researched the impact PR & citizenship would have had on his son. If his Father & Mother were PR's they certainly were made aware of the fact that their son would be obligated to do NS and the only way out would have been to leave him on a Student Pass and not given him PR at all. But they were greedy and the thought of dual citizenship overwhelmed their common sense. Now, they didn't bother to let him know what his obligations would be BEFORE committing him to both PR and Citizenship. Their greed has screwed him up royally.

[PNGMK]

Terribly sorry to hear about this.

My main concern is whether you are a superstar who needs to stay on the academic track. If so, then run. There is no academic future for true super stars in Singapore no matter how many FT scientists etc they bring in. Singapore will never produce a Nobel prize winner. (By super star I mean you have the potential to win a major prize in your field or make a major change to the human condition).

If you're not that good then hang tough and do the NS. Asia has a lot of potential in the decades ahead and many of us believe the USA is in decline.

[Mad Scientist]

You cannot do Uni then do NS period. Be it by posing a bond or not.. Overseas or otherwise.

[zzm9980]

I'll just throw this out there also for the kid...

If you think there is any reasonable chance that you will not spend your career in the US working on US soil, stick with Singapore and dump the American citizenship. American is one of the few countries where you will be taxed no matter where you live. So if say you think you may wind up in Europe, the SG citizenship is much better to have.

I know this may sound dumb to you or you can't possibly fathom how it will affect you at this point in your life, but trust me. It could have financial implications of tens or even hundreds of thousands of US Dollars per year by your 30s (or even younger) by keeping that US Citizenship. You have the perfect excuse to renounce (father forced you to get SG Citizenship, SG forced you to renounce) and by being born in the US you can always get it back later if you change your mind and want to move back.

[sundaymorningstaple]

^^This.

[quitter]

You cannot do Uni then do NS period. Be it by posing a bond or not.. Overseas or otherwise.

Not entirely true, personally know a couple of guys who were able to complete Uni then go back to do NS. I believe they said something about being born at the end of the year so they were allowed to complete Uni first. This was back in late 90s early 2000s so govt may have closed the loop hole since.

[PNGMK]

You cannot do Uni then do NS period. Be it by posing a bond or not.. Overseas or otherwise.

Not entirely true, personally know a couple of guys who were able to complete Uni then go back to do NS. I believe they said something about being born at the end of the year so they were allowed to complete Uni first. This was back in late 90s early 2000s so govt may have closed the loop hole since.

IT also depends on the program being studied. Medicine for example was on the categories where NS deferment is allowed.