Horrors awaiting parents of NS defaulters

[smoko]

There is a lack of information what type of horrors and torture awaits the parents and extended family of NS defaulters. The best I could find is from a post by M.S.
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic68009-0-asc-0.html

Extracted from that thread.

This is what they will do to your extended family living here in SG if you have one
1. The CMPB will call and make house visit to locate you for the next six month.
2. They will call your grandparents especially and make them realise that your grandparent is harbouring a NS defaulters.
3. Then they will have a go at your parents siblings
4. They will create such a mess that they make you like a "convicted killer" on the run.
5. I believe your parent still hold SG passport, try renewing their passport the next time it expire.
6. If your parent hold HDB flat and CPF here there is another spots that they can take pot shot on you
7. A letter will be send to the country's Embassy in SG for notification of defaultment of SGer. To locate you is not difficult.


Sounds horrible. Remove the references to SG and you mistakenly think it's a 3rd world country. Reminds me of the AH LONG tactic of terrorising neighbours who live in the same HDB block of the people who owe them money.

[PNGMK]

This is nothing compared to what they could do....

Let's add;

Confiscate HDB (because parents own private property in NZ).
Confiscate CPF in lieu of bond.
Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.
Charge parents with registering fugitive and get conviction in absentia in Singapore court then...
Register parents as criminals harboring fugitive from the law and register case with interpol....
Cancel parents driving license and all other permits.


Actually in retrospect the Singapore gahmen hasn't done any of those, which they could. What do you expect them to do when people flout the law? Just turn blind eye or what?

[Wd40]

There is a lack of information what type of horrors and torture awaits the parents and extended family of NS defaulters. The best I could find is from a post by M.S.
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic68009-0-asc-0.html

Extracted from that thread.

This is what they will do to your extended family living here in SG if you have one
1. The CMPB will call and make house visit to locate you for the next six month.
2. They will call your grandparents especially and make them realise that your grandparent is harbouring a NS defaulters.
3. Then they will have a go at your parents siblings
4. They will create such a mess that they make you like a "convicted killer" on the run.
5. I believe your parent still hold SG passport, try renewing their passport the next time it expire.
6. If your parent hold HDB flat and CPF here there is another spots that they can take pot shot on you
7. A letter will be send to the country's Embassy in SG for notification of defaultment of SGer. To locate you is not difficult.


Sounds horrible. Remove the references to SG and you mistakenly think it's a 3rd world country. Reminds me of the AH LONG tactic of terrorising neighbours who live in the same HDB block of the people who owe them money.

You have got it completely wrong b/w what is 3rd world and what is first world.
India is 3rd world, many small businesses dont pay taxes the taxes they owe and still go scott free.
Most individuals dont pay capital gains taxes they owe the gahmen and yet go scott free.
That is one of the biggest reasons it is still 3rd world.

Singapore is 1st world because its law enforcement is so strict that nobody can break it.

[zzm9980]

There is a lack of information what type of horrors and torture awaits the parents and extended family of NS defaulters. The best I could find is from a post by M.S.
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic68009-0-asc-0.html

Extracted from that thread.

This is what they will do to your extended family living here in SG if you have one
1. The CMPB will call and make house visit to locate you for the next six month.
2. They will call your grandparents especially and make them realise that your grandparent is harbouring a NS defaulters.
3. Then they will have a go at your parents siblings
4. They will create such a mess that they make you like a "convicted killer" on the run.
5. I believe your parent still hold SG passport, try renewing their passport the next time it expire.
6. If your parent hold HDB flat and CPF here there is another spots that they can take pot shot on you
7. A letter will be send to the country's Embassy in SG for notification of defaultment of SGer. To locate you is not difficult.


Sounds horrible. Remove the references to SG and you mistakenly think it's a 3rd world country. Reminds me of the AH LONG tactic of terrorising neighbours who live in the same HDB block of the people who owe them money.

You have got it completely wrong b/w what is 3rd world and what is first world.
India is 3rd world, many small businesses dont pay taxes the taxes they owe and still go scott free.
Most individuals dont pay capital gains taxes they owe the gahmen and yet go scott free.
That is one of the biggest reasons it is still 3rd world.

Singapore is 1st world because its law enforcement is so strict that nobody can break it.

Well, it's a mix of third-world tactics while enforcing first-world rules.

"Uniquely Singapore"

[zzm9980]

Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.

Rather sure they can't do that one, as it would likely violate international law. Otherwise, yeah everything else sounds fair game.

[Barnsley]

Isnt the answer just follow the rules?

[sundaymorningstaple]

^^That's very un-Singaporean of you!

[PNGMK]

Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.

Rather sure they can't do that one, as it would likely violate international law. Otherwise, yeah everything else sounds fair game.

Do what Australia does with their citizens they don't like (i.e. Assange).... just shorten the renewal periods to very short periods or issue passports only valid for travel back to Australia.

[JR8]

This is nothing compared to what they could do....

Let's add;
Confiscate HDB (because parents own private property in NZ).
Confiscate CPF in lieu of bond.
Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.
Charge parents with registering fugitive and get conviction in absentia in Singapore court then...
Register parents as criminals harboring fugitive from the law and register case with interpol....
Cancel parents driving license and all other permits.
Actually in retrospect the Singapore gahmen hasn't done any of those, which they could. What do you expect them to do when people flout the law? Just turn blind eye or what?

What is the age of majority/'adulthood' in SG? (Sorry, I googled, no luck).
So what do you have : -
- A child conscript army for whom the conscripts parents are still responsible.
or
- Adult conscripts, where the parents, relatives etc., are somehow held accountable for their performance?

Just reading through the quoted list at the top ... assuming it's correct, do you have to look further as to why people wish to leave this country?

[AngMoG]

Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.

Rather sure they can't do that one, as it would likely violate international law. Otherwise, yeah everything else sounds fair game.

I don't know enough about international law to verify that, but I doubt it is true. Sovereign states have the right to give and take citizenship according to their internal laws. Those can be more or less transparent. Since in SG, you basically cannot win against gahmen in court, it would be (made) legal if/when it happens.

Alternatively, they could decide to allow the person's renewal only in-person in SG, while simultaneously convicting that person in absentia of crimes such as 'harboring a fugitive' with jail time. I.e., they would have to come back and get arrested before they can contest anything.

[zzm9980]

Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.

Rather sure they can't do that one, as it would likely violate international law. Otherwise, yeah everything else sounds fair game.

I don't know enough about international law to verify that, but I doubt it is true. Sovereign states have the right to give and take citizenship according to their internal laws. Those can be more or less transparent. Since in SG, you basically cannot win against gahmen in court, it would be (made) legal if/when it happens.

Well, I did say International Law, which means f-ck all really. But here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention ... telessness

absent circumstances of fraudulent application or disloyalty toward the Contracting State, deprivations and renunciations of citizenship shall only take effect where a person has or subsequently obtains another nationality in replacement

And it doesn't matter even if International Law mattered, because Singapore hasn't signed it anyway. And even if they did, I'm sure they'd somehow construe dodging NS as "disloyalty toward the Contracting State"

Most likely they wouldn't do it for all of the reasons you state anyway, they could be just as effective without inviting such negative publicity.

[smoko]

This is nothing compared to what they could do....

Let's add;

Confiscate HDB (because parents own private property in NZ).
Confiscate CPF in lieu of bond.
Render the parents stateless by cancelling (arbitrarily) the parents Singapore passport.
Charge parents with registering fugitive and get conviction in absentia in Singapore court then...
Register parents as criminals harboring fugitive from the law and register case with interpol....
Cancel parents driving license and all other permits.


Actually in retrospect the Singapore gahmen hasn't done any of those, which they could. What do you expect them to do when people flout the law? Just turn blind eye or what?

Your list is more scary than M.S list.

Why don't they just use Interpol to bring the NS defaulter back to Singapore instead of harassing the parents? If they can use Interpol to bring the parents back for harboring fugitive, there is no reason why they can't do the same with the defaulter.

[smoko]

What is the age of majority/'adulthood' in SG? (Sorry, I googled, no luck).
So what do you have : -
- A child conscript army for whom the conscripts parents are still responsible.
or
- Adult conscripts, where the parents, relatives etc., are somehow held accountable for their performance?

Just reading through the quoted list at the top ... assuming it's correct, do you have to look further as to why people wish to leave this country?

After reading your post, I looked at the enlistment act. It classifies relevant child as 13 to 16.5 years old. Does this mean that after 16.5 years old the parents are not accountable?

Wish there are some legal eagles on the forum who can shed some light on stuff like this.

[PNGMK]

What is the age of majority/'adulthood' in SG? (Sorry, I googled, no luck).
So what do you have : -
- A child conscript army for whom the conscripts parents are still responsible.
or
- Adult conscripts, where the parents, relatives etc., are somehow held accountable for their performance?

Just reading through the quoted list at the top ... assuming it's correct, do you have to look further as to why people wish to leave this country?

After reading your post, I looked at the enlistment act. It classifies relevant child as 13 to 16.5 years old. Does this mean that after 16.5 years old the parents are not accountable?

Wish there are some legal eagles on the forum who can shed some light on stuff like this.

The age of majority in Singapore is 21. Parents are still legally responsible for kids actions until kid is 21. Hence the reason the kid cannot renounce until 21 and why they push NS so hard between 17 and 21.

[JR8]

The age of majority in Singapore is 21. Parents are still legally responsible for kids actions until kid is 21. Hence the reason the kid cannot renounce until 21 and why they push NS so hard between 17 and 21.

Interesting, and yet strange. I wonder which if any other countries conscript* their military with people who aren't legally adults (for want of a better term for it).

'You can die for the country, that you're not yet old enough to vote for in an election'.


* The distinction is important I think, versus national armed forces where candidates volunteer.