Singapore Expats Forum

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Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby PrimroseHill » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 8:41 am

Quite a few of my friends back in the UK are either Guyana/Canadian/UK or Bahamian/Canada/UK or Msian/UK/Australia that sort of combo.

I did a boo boo at AMS over summer, though and the kind officer explained to me the proper and legit way of using dual passports.

Steve, I meant to say, I am petrified when I am older of the health/medical bills (soaring) and money (pension) like most Brits.

No idea where I eventually want to live when I finally call work a day. On the other hand as long as I am able I can't see myself calling it a day. I would like to cut down the hours and may be work a3day week.

We; OH & I love SF but we love Europe too, so no idea

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 8:47 am

JR8 wrote:Er, but that doesn't answer my question.

p.s. I never suggested there is anything 'wrong' with having 2+ passports, it's just I can't understand the net benefit (for most people).


It's very convenient if you have to get visas for different countries that may or may not cost. e.g., If you have a Singapore passport it costs $40 for an Indian visa, but if you have a US Passport it costs $120.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 9:55 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's very convenient if you have to get visas for different countries that may or may not cost. e.g., If you have a Singapore passport it costs $40 for an Indian visa, but if you have a US Passport it costs $120.


Ooh good one, that's an angle I hadn't thought of. Useful for a frequent visitor, it would pay for itself. Then, yes, I see a clear case for such people, it's almost like doing a nationality-arbitrage.

p.s. I renewed my sole passport last year, and it cost me something like US$200 (equiv), all in. You can see why I'd need a compelling case to wish to have more than one.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:03 am

PrimroseHill wrote:We; OH & I love SF but we love Europe too, so no idea


You and your acronyms! Who is OH? Is this the same person as DH? OH = Old Husband, so previous husband? Or 'other Husband', perhaps you're mormon? :cry: :shock:

SF = San Francisco? Southern France? Or somewhere else? I didn't think either you or any of your acronyms were also American. San Francisco would be an extremely expensive place for an American to retire, I can't imagine a non-American getting residency to just retire there.

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Postby katbh » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:11 am

OH = Other half. Used in most other countries as it does not necessitate marriage. Here however, it is a largely superfluous as for EP basically have to be married, same for PR etc.

Dual passports is also good because some passports cost nowhere near the US$200 you talk about and if you have two you do not need to get the more expensive 'frequent traveller' passports.

In addition, some visa's require that you leave your passport with them for anything up to one month. You can travel on your other passport in the meantime.

And most importantly, you can fell all jumped up and important when you can go through as 'citizen' at immigration line (or not if the queue is too long!).

I remember how good I felt when I got my PR in Singapore and could go through the resident's gate at immigration. Bit sad really! All my family (except me but including the dog) have dual passports. I am always the last out at immigration.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:35 am

katbh wrote:OH = Other half. Used in most other countries as it does not necessitate marriage. Here however, it is a largely superfluous as for EP basically have to be married, same for PR etc.

Dual passports is also good because some passports cost nowhere near the US$200 you talk about and if you have two you do not need to get the more expensive 'frequent traveller' passports.

In addition, some visa's require that you leave your passport with them for anything up to one month. You can travel on your other passport in the meantime.

And most importantly, you can fell all jumped up and important when you can go through as 'citizen' at immigration line (or not if the queue is too long!).

I remember how good I felt when I got my PR in Singapore and could go through the resident's gate at immigration. Bit sad really! All my family (except me but including the dog) have dual passports. I am always the last out at immigration.


I thought unmarried but long-term couples used the term 'partner'. [By the way congrats on getting 3 acronyms in one sentence, that might just be a record ;)].

I have a 'fat' passport. I think it was about 50%+ over the standard one.

Good point re: applying for visas. In the UK you can be issued with two passports in such cases. You might use one solely for applying for visas, where it takes time, or for visiting Israel*, and so on.

Interesting. I am entitled to a 2nd country's passport, but I'd never considered any benefit in applying for it.



* I have no personal connection with Israel, beyond a 1-week holiday there 25 years ago; it's just I once worked in a company where people were travelling throughout the Middle East/North Africa, and also Israel. One morning they wanted me to do a 'drop everything right now and go' trip to Algeria, but I had Israeli stamps in my passport. That left them stuffed, as I was probably the only person in the whole company who would have gone for it, if I could have. (The country was consumed in civil war at the time) :)

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:39 am

How about this? If you have a Singapore passport an Australia Visa is virtually Free. It can be applied online and the agent charges $10-20.

If you are an Indian passport holder you need to apply for Visa Subclass 600 which is a paper application with embassy fee of AUD 130 but god know what crazy conversion rate they use, if you do it in Singapore you need to pay SGD 176. Also, although you can lodge directly at the embassy, everywhere on the embassy site and the embassy phone IVR the suggestion is to go through VFS which charges another SGD40. Not to mention, the loads of documentation needed like employers letter that I will come back to work to Singapore after the vacation, bank statements, invitation letter from my cousin in Sydney etc.

I mentioned this in another thread. We got cheap return tickets to fly direct from Singapore to Sydney for $210 all in. But now it looks like the Australian Visa application is going to cost me $216. Multiply this by 3 for our family.

If you travel a lot to Australia, I can see why you might want to take up Singapore passport.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:00 am

There is a lot of diplomatic tit-for-tat that goes on. Have you looked at what India charges for a tourist visa, it's almost racketeering, so don't be at all surprised that you get treated precisely the same way back. Some say that French is the language of diplomacy, in which case it is an example of 'Les deux fingers to you Monsieur'.

re: 'All the documentation', that's because they know that a large number of Indian visitors would do anything to move there, and 'get the passport'. Singapore require the same of people from even the 1st world, so why the surprise?

It's a bit like the Olympic team from Equatorial Guinea, they arrived in London and something like 95% of them immediately applied for asylum. How terribly sad to be forced into such a position.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:17 am

Yeah, I know, I am just saying from the perspective of having multiple passports :)

I mean the fact that I am an Indian passport holder working in Singapore, may be even a long term PR doesnt add any weightage. But then all of a sudden if I apply Singapore citizenship and get the red passport, I get the red carpet rolled out to me by Australia. I am still the same person, so how?

BTW, in this case, I dont think its a diplomatic tit-for-tat. Australia has like 4 groups of countries depending on the risk level and India is in the highest risk level along with Thailand and several others and the fee goes by the risk level.

Indian Visa for Australians cost AUD 95.
https://www.vfsglobalonline.com/ihcauso ... 452if52fbf))/FeeCalculator.aspx

If anything, I would imagine, India is resiprocating with high fees because Australia considers India as a high risk country.
Last edited by Wd40 on Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:31 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby PrimroseHill » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:22 am

OH is Other half or some people call their spouses BH= better half or WH= worse half :D
SF- yes as in San Francisco, though expenses wise South of France is pretty much similar to SF. We were thinking more about Short Term Stays like 2months etc.
British passport/EU costs GBP115 to renew a normal none fattish one. The Msian passport to renew is RM300.
Whilst as Msian I hardly need a visa in most South East Asian countries as a British passport holder, you will need visas which will take up an entire page.
I will need a 10year visa which I do and still have for US. I will need a Canadian visa as well as Japan too. As a Brit I do not need a visa for Canada and US.

At Gard Du Nord once, the officer saw just my DD (darling daughter) and I and automatically ursher us to the foreign passports queue until we waved our "red". Talk about steroetyping

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:50 am

JR8 wrote:Hmmm. Do you have three passports, and do you use them all, and if so when/how? I suppose I curious what the virtue is.

Are there other additional burdens? (Such as, as I mentioned earlier, a US 'Green Card' requiring you to file US tax returns).


I have three passports. I have not used Canadian at all and have allowed it to expire as renewal is only five years. I have not traveled on it.

I have traveled to UK on UK passport, mostly to do it for fun while on holiday. Let's me get in a different line.

I usually travel on US passport. I became a US citizen in 1978... never actually gave a thought to other citizenships/passports until I went to Singapore.

With respect to taxes: I wanted to be a US citizen since I was married to an American and had an American daughter. Overseas employment and the tax consequences had not occurred to me at the time. I lived in the USA and wanted to be part of it... still do.

As for "virtues"... although I renounced other citizenships when I took my oath of American citizenship, it was only oral, and neither Canada nor the UK consider that to be a citizenship renunciation. And the US Supreme Court has ruled that I cannot be denied by US citizenship simply because other countries don't automatically cancel my citizenship.

Therefore, I am a citizen of two countries by automatic default... I need do nothing to hold the citizenship since I am due it by birth. Acquisition of a passport was partly "can I do it" and partly because I wanted to have no issues working in an EU country... you don't need a work permit to employ me in most countries.

I identify as an American, though. Married here. Daughter raised here. My family here. And I get to vote against the f*cking !@@$#@# Republicans!

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:12 pm

@ Wd40
They can’t cater precisely to 1,001 iterations of nationality/residential status, long-term PR, short-term PR, long-term LTVP, EP, DP.... etc.
Why do you think (if true) that Australia welcomes SG passport holders over Indian ones? ‘Flight risk’? I don’t know, but they must have a rationale.
Why do you think Australia grades ‘*risk* levels’, as you say? Singapore does the same too by the way. Look at the list of say muslim nationalities that can’t apply for visas online.
I know the UK started requiring visas for Indians, after presumably so many turned up and refused to leave. Then India did the tit-for-tat (I recall, as my first visit to India was back when you could still get a free visa-on-arrival. Next time I was considering a budget flight trip from here, to somewhere like Madras, just for a nostalgic weekend, flight S$50, visa S$250? Forget it... ).


@PrimroseHill (your points in order)
Hah? I don’t need visa to visit TH/MY/SG. It seems to be poorer countries that use it as a money-raising exercise. Indochina, Indonesia, Burma. The loonier the state, the more $$$.
Ah well, that’s ASEAN fraternity isn’t it? Smile
Most regional travel for me doesn’t need visas, just ‘stamps on arrival’. They have no trouble getting 6 on a page. Somewhere like Cambodia, the visa is/was a half-page sticker, with space left for the entry/exit chops. But that kind of trip is not something I do very often. I used to travel a LOT, and I’ve yet to exhaust a passport (though of course intra-EU travel is stamp-free nowadays).

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:31 pm

Wow.... very interesting Eagle, and thanks for elaborating.

I'm reminded of the concept of the 'global citizen'.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 1:04 pm

katbh wrote:OH = Other half. Used in most other countries as it does not necessitate marriage. Here however, it is a largely superfluous as for EP basically have to be married, same for PR etc.


Then what is DH? Primrose in particular uses it quite often, I assume interchangeably with 'OH', but I honestly don't know.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 01 Nov 2013 1:08 pm

Maybe related to DD? The first person stoner role-playing fantasy game Dungeons and Dragons.

OTOH IIRC ICBM, TTFN


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