Tenant rights in Singapore

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
Post Reply
User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39562
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 8:32 pm

If she is Singaporean, you already know the answer in all likelihood. Anything else is manna from heaven.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

Singapore Property Search

 

Steve1960
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:58 am
Location: Singapore

Post by Steve1960 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 8:34 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If she is Singaporean, you already know the answer in all likelihood. Anything else is manna from heaven.
Hong Kong Chinese. Can turn milk sour with a single look and crush ball bearings between her thighs.

Steve1960
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:58 am
Location: Singapore

Post by Steve1960 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 8:42 pm

None of this really helps the OP but there is a question nagging at me from that first post.

After 5 years in the apartment would it not be reasonable to repaint it? I have already repainted our apartment after less than 20 months. I didn't do it for the Landlord I did it because naturally over time the walls got scuffed and dirty and I wanted to live in a nice clean environment.

I have never in my life, renting or owning, allowed 5 years to pass without refreshing the decor.

Maybe its just me.......................

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 8:46 pm

So, at each step, ask her to demonstrate her Grounds.

After all, even in the West, it is reasonable to ask this.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 8:54 pm

Steve1960 wrote:None of this really helps the OP but there is a question nagging at me from that first post.

After 5 years in the apartment would it not be reasonable to repaint it?
What the landlord, at their expense?

Steve1960
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:58 am
Location: Singapore

Post by Steve1960 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 9:57 pm

JR8 wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:None of this really helps the OP but there is a question nagging at me from that first post.

After 5 years in the apartment would it not be reasonable to repaint it?
What the landlord, at their expense?
No no no, tenant at their expense. Perfectly reasonable in my view.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:22 pm

Steve1960 wrote:None of this really helps the OP but there is a question nagging at me from that first post.

After 5 years in the apartment would it not be reasonable to repaint it? I have already repainted our apartment after less than 20 months. I didn't do it for the Landlord I did it because naturally over time the walls got scuffed and dirty and I wanted to live in a nice clean environment.

I have never in my life, renting or owning, allowed 5 years to pass without refreshing the decor.
5y, yes, it's pretty long. If you are going to stay in this place then I guess during one of the "renewals" you can negotiate to have it repainted at the expense of the LL. Good occasion to do this. If this happens (the LL agrees) don't forget to have it on paper meaning in the new TA.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:41 pm

Steve1960 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:None of this really helps the OP but there is a question nagging at me from that first post.

After 5 years in the apartment would it not be reasonable to repaint it?
What the landlord, at their expense?
No no no, tenant at their expense. Perfectly reasonable in my view.
No I disagree (vehemently). The flat was provided in the condition as is. It is the responsibility of the landlord to continue providing this contracted quality of accommodation (less Fair Wear + Tear).

Never let a tenant repaint anything, it's 95% a disaster waiting to happen. I've had this a few times - Tenant: 'I've done this, and I've painted that', but if you want to find your rental painted in matt black and dark red throughout, well here's how. Do not get so 'intimate' with a tenant, that you start letting them paint your property. (unless they've been there 10+ years)

p.s. The point being. Most tenants have never been home-owners. They have never done DIY. They have never painted anything .... hence the pig's ear that gets made, for which the landlord is somehow meant to feel pathetically grateful, or somehow compensated in lieu of the next rent review,

User avatar
PNGMK
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8647
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 9:06 pm
Answers: 1
Location: Sinkapore

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:59 pm

JR8 wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:
JR8 wrote: What the landlord, at their expense?
No no no, tenant at their expense. Perfectly reasonable in my view.
No I disagree (vehemently). The flat was provided in the condition as is. It is the responsibility of the landlord to continue providing this contracted quality of accommodation (less Fair Wear + Tear).

Never let a tenant repaint anything, it's 95% a disaster waiting to happen. I've had this a few times - Tenant: 'I've done this, and I've painted that', but if you want to find your rental painted in matt black and dark red throughout, well here's how. Do not get so 'intimate' with a tenant, that you start letting them paint your property. (unless they've been there 10+ years)

p.s. The point being. Most tenants have never been home-owners. They have never done DIY. They have never painted anything .... hence the pig's ear that gets made, for which the landlord is somehow meant to feel pathetically grateful, or somehow compensated in lieu of the next rent review,
The last place I rented here was repainted after 5 years when I moved out by the LL at his expense. That's IMO the norm here.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 11:03 pm

It is also a natural component of the benefits negotiated if the character of the renewal includes any alteration to the TA like changing of the rental. From practical POV it is often like a de facto new contract so if you had it painted earlier and now something starts over kind of from sq 1 why not to include it? Same goes for other stuff like appliances (if any). IMO if you don't do anything bad to the apartment the worsening of the walls conditions falls under wear and tear and fixing it by the tenant is excluded from the TA. It is like with the furniture, they aesthetic value decreases in time but it does not mean the tenant has to fix it from his own pocket. He already pays for it within the period covered by the lease term.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013 11:17 pm

Yes after 5 years, I expect it would be reasonable to ask for some rooms to be repainted, and a landlord should be ok with that.

Usually it's only a room a two that warrant doing.

When you tell tenants there's going to be painters in for 2 weeks, dustsheets, lock up valuables, put away possessions, their enthusiasm for a re-paint rapidly wanes.

p.s. I've only had flats for long-term tenants completely repainted for an in-situ tenant maybe twice - and I've done the work myself! Don't recommend it... I actually enjoy house-painting, but should be beyond doing the hands-on stuff for a living these days lol...

[Doing a quality job on say a 2 bed 600ft flat, emulsion, and then gloss/satin on timberwork, = about 12-14 hours a day for a week >>> *for me*

Steve1960
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:58 am
Location: Singapore

Post by Steve1960 » Sat, 26 Oct 2013 4:15 am

JR8 wrote:No I disagree (vehemently). The flat was provided in the condition as is. It is the responsibility of the landlord to continue providing this contracted quality of accommodation (less Fair Wear + Tear).

Never let a tenant repaint anything, it's 95% a disaster waiting to happen. I've had this a few times - Tenant: 'I've done this, and I've painted that', but if you want to find your rental painted in matt black and dark red throughout, well here's how. Do not get so 'intimate' with a tenant, that you start letting them paint your property. (unless they've been there 10+ years)

p.s. The point being. Most tenants have never been home-owners. They have never done DIY. They have never painted anything .... hence the pig's ear that gets made, for which the landlord is somehow meant to feel pathetically grateful, or somehow compensated in lieu of the next rent review,
Its an interesting perspective and did not occur to me as I have owned a home, I am very good at DIY and when I repainted this apartment I agreed the colours with the Landlord in advance.

In this case the pigs ear was already there when we arrived and the LL should be eternally grateful for what I have done. This is not the norm for Singapore though I understand that.

Steve1960
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:58 am
Location: Singapore

Post by Steve1960 » Sat, 26 Oct 2013 4:26 am

JR8 wrote:Yes after 5 years, I expect it would be reasonable to ask for some rooms to be repainted, and a landlord should be ok with that.

Usually it's only a room a two that warrant doing.

When you tell tenants there's going to be painters in for 2 weeks, dustsheets, lock up valuables, put away possessions, their enthusiasm for a re-paint rapidly wanes.

p.s. I've only had flats for long-term tenants completely repainted for an in-situ tenant maybe twice - and I've done the work myself! Don't recommend it... I actually enjoy house-painting, but should be beyond doing the hands-on stuff for a living these days lol...

[Doing a quality job on say a 2 bed 600ft flat, emulsion, and then gloss/satin on timberwork, = about 12-14 hours a day for a week >>> *for me*
Again interesting. I dont think I have lived anywhere that didn't need a complete repaint after 5 years, less in fact. Even now its a constant battle to keep the walls clean with a 3 year old, wife and maid who all seem drawn to the walls for some reason. The maid cannot stand up on her own apparently, she needs a wall to hold her up! That's real life though, walls do get dirty over time. I repaint every 2 years.

The beauty of having the tenant do it (if they are capable) is that it does not have to be done in one sitting with dust sheets everywhere and valuables locked up (I understand you use that as a deterrent). I painted this apartment over a couple of months, one room per weekend.

I enjoy it too and at the above pace it was no hardship and I was working around a 3 year old.

Funny though. The LL originally asked that we didn't drill any holes in the walls. I said OK but can I open up the ones that your contractor filled given you can see them from a mile away! Me and LL looked at the walls together and she agreed there was no harm in opening the poorly filled holes!!! I then admitted that I had on one wall drilled a hole to centre a picture and asked her to find the original hole that I had filled. She couldn't :wink:

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Sat, 26 Oct 2013 9:14 am

I expect there will be quite a number of expat renters here who own property back home, and maybe are capable of doing a quality repainting job. Whereas the rental market back home tends to be younger people who have yet to buy their first homes. They tend not to have any DIY experience, but they ‘just think’ they can do it.

You repaint every 5 years, or less? Wow! Well with a youngster and a maid I can see it. Every 2 years!? That’s extraordinary! But... they do use the poorest quality paint here that I have seen, it is more like whitewash. Rub a wall with a damp cloth here, and you go through to the last paint-job below. A false economy, as QED it needs frequent repainting. Back home if you use good paint like Dulux or Crown it’s ‘vinyl-ised’ and if needs be you can wash it down.

The ‘lock up your valuables’ thing is not so much a deterrent, it’s more that tenants (IME) have little or no idea how invasive and messy the work will be. They think it’ll be some educated polite chap who will just ‘magically’ make all the paintwork like new, with no fuss or bother, and with no effort required on the tenants part at all.

They don’t realise that in the event, the nice chap is the proprietor of the company, but the work will probably be done by say 3 asylum seekers, who’ll be in and out all day, and they’ll leave the flat and house front doors ‘chocked’ ajar, open to the world, and that for example they will try and paint the inside of a built-in cupboard even if the tenant has left all his clothes in there. Sanding down windows, skirtings, doors etc. creates a hell of a mess. Everything needs to be out of a room being done.

Re: filling holes. Hehehe, quite. Landlords don’t seem to like people making holes, to say hang pictures. But that, as you allude, is simply because their contractors are so bad at filling them!

Other factors at play, besides cheap paint.
- They paint everything ‘brilliant white’ here, and that shows up marks to the max.
- The UV is much higher here, – ditto above -
- Rooms/halls etc are smaller here, you can’t help being in contact with walls more often.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Sat, 26 Oct 2013 9:33 am

Lets be realistic, I am not saying the tenants are professional painters but the local professional painters are not professional neither. We just moved to a flat that had to be repainted on our request as what they found fine we found not.

What they seem to do here as a standard painting is some sort of wall refreshment with a single layer of paint not necessary matching well the shade underneath. Local LLs and their agents clearly think it is a good job as long as it is cheap and the walls are brushed. This kind of job takes ca 2 days for a 1k2sft flat.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Property Talk, Housing & Rental”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests