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TAFEP Guidelines Prevents PRs from Finding Local Employment?

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TAFEP Guidelines Prevents PRs from Finding Local Employment?

Postby IronMac » Sat, 19 Oct 2013 8:38 pm

Hi all,

Not sure if this has been posted yet elsewhere but I was reading the papers (pg. A3) and the article discusses TAFEP's guidelines for new job ads. One point leapt out at me; most ads these days says "Singaporeans and SPRs Only" but the new guideline says "Only Singaporeans" should be used.

Does this mean that us SPRs are automatically going to be shut out of the local job market? Maybe that is not what they meant but if you take it at face value it sure sounds like it.

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Postby IronMac » Sat, 19 Oct 2013 8:50 pm


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Postby AngMoG » Sat, 19 Oct 2013 9:52 pm

Saw that today as well... it seems weird, since the idea of being PR is that you are treated equally in the labor market. (At least, in pretty much any other country I know.) Then again, there are a couple of other ways to express the same, such as "EP/S-Pass cannot be provided" or even "Singaporeans preferred".

I find most items on that page are going in the right direction; one thing that seems over-the-top as well is that "fresh graduates are welcome to apply" should not be used, but "no experience required" is ok...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:26 pm

But there is not a requirement to list a flavour at all, so there is the way around it. It will just make HR's work a bit harder as they will have to sift from 12,635 Subcontinental CVs for every application that they post in the newspaper that doesn't say "Singaporeans only" But that is going to be the only way that they will be able to garner the PR applicants as well.

But in reality, based on my own experience of 20 years in HR now, in one form or another, It doesn't matter what you put in the advertisement. All will still apply for the positions. This will happen even if you put down the height, weight. shade of tan, gender, ethnicity and residency status required. :?

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Postby IronMac » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 8:11 am

I don't think that we can afford to be complacent about this. It is not too hard to believe that in the future the attitude among all SG employers will be to specify citizens only. TAFEP is giving a very clear guideline here.

This guideline effectively places PRs on the same level as tourists. Frankly, it seems that we are paying taxes and not getting any sort of benefit. We end up paying more for services and we are now being told that we cannot work here.

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Postby PNGMK » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 8:10 pm

IronMac wrote:I don't think that we can afford to be complacent about this. It is not too hard to believe that in the future the attitude among all SG employers will be to specify citizens only. TAFEP is giving a very clear guideline here.

This guideline effectively places PRs on the same level as tourists. Frankly, it seems that we are paying taxes and not getting any sort of benefit. We end up paying more for services and we are now being told that we cannot work here.


I'd not over react... PR still has value as there is no quote. HR will find a way to find the PR's.

Secondly the TAFEP job board to me is an absolute last stop ... in fact if I had to look there for a job - I'd know it was long past time to leave.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 10:22 pm

I am with Iron Mac on this. Its not about whether HR can get around it or not. Its the principle of the matter. Until now employment area was the only area where there was no differentiation b/w Citizens and PRs. Now the last bastion also looks set to fall.The fact that an org like TAFEP thinks PRs shouldn't be thought as equal to Citizens for employment opportunities itself says where this could lead to in the future.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:47 pm

IronMac wrote:Frankly, it seems that we are paying taxes and not getting any sort of benefit. We end up paying more for services and we are now being told that we cannot work here.


You don't pay any more taxes as a PR than you do as an EP holder. What are you on about?

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 7:47 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
IronMac wrote:Frankly, it seems that we are paying taxes and not getting any sort of benefit. We end up paying more for services and we are now being told that we cannot work here.


You don't pay any more taxes as a PR than you do as an EP holder. What are you on about?


Actually that might be the next PR benefit to go...

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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 7:51 am

I don't think they can touch the taxes. Not even for foreigners. I watched one of the talking point shows and one of the callers suggested that foreigners should pay higher taxes than locals. There was a guest who was a minister and he replied. No where in the world taxation is based on nationality. Its based on residency.

But I guess, they could still provide extra rebates for citizens and don't provide those rebates to foreigners.

Currently the tax we pay is negligible, but what we save in tax we pay as rent. So the way I look at it is (tax+rent)/salary in Singapore vs (tax+rent)/salary in another country.

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 8:26 am

Wd40 wrote:I don't think they can touch the taxes. Not even for foreigners. I watched one of the talking point shows and one of the callers suggested that foreigners should pay higher taxes than locals. There was a guest who was a minister and he replied. No where in the world taxation is based on nationality. Its based on residency.

But I guess, they could still provide extra rebates for citizens and don't provide those rebates to foreigners.

Currently the tax we pay is negligible, but what we save in tax we pay as rent. So the way I look at it is (tax+rent)/salary in Singapore vs (tax+rent)/salary in another country.


Well they already provide SC only rebates (rebates on conservancy fees in HDB, HDB PUB rebates for SC only, lower school fees for SC) - I only see that level of pork barrelling increasing (although - if it helps the poor in this country I have no issue with it). Actually you pay a lot of tax here... just not direct.

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Postby IronMac » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 9:55 am

PNGMK wrote:I'd not over react... PR still has value as there is no quote. HR will find a way to find the PR's.



First, it's irrelevant as to whether or not there is a quota because it's as if PRs do not exist in their eyes.

Second, what happens if you are applying at a company with no HR dept? What happens if they are simply, blindly following TAFEP guidelines? Or what happens if there is an HR dept but they do the same...blindly follow the TAFEP guideline? I just passed by a place where they put up a sign that says "Singaporeans ONLY".

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Postby IronMac » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 9:59 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
IronMac wrote:Frankly, it seems that we are paying taxes and not getting any sort of benefit. We end up paying more for services and we are now being told that we cannot work here.


You don't pay any more taxes as a PR than you do as an EP holder. What are you on about?


Ok...so I guess you can equate an EP holder with a PR, then?

In the past, for a potential employer it was:

(SC + SPR) > EP > Dependent > Tourist

Now:

SC > EP > Dependent > Tourist

At least with an EP, an employer is looking to hire a foreigner and made an effort to do so. With the new guideline, PRs do not exist as part of the labor pool if you look at it from a literal sense.

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Postby IronMac » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:08 am

PNGMK wrote:Well they already provide SC only rebates (rebates on conservancy fees in HDB, HDB PUB rebates for SC only, lower school fees for SC) - I only see that level of pork barrelling increasing (although - if it helps the poor in this country I have no issue with it). Actually you pay a lot of tax here... just not direct.


Agreed.

As a Canadian, I paid a lot in taxes for the many services/benefits.

Here, in SG and as a PR, I don't pay a lot in direct taxes but if you want services, watch out. Library membership? Better fork out the $$$.

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:19 am

IronMac wrote:
PNGMK wrote:Well they already provide SC only rebates (rebates on conservancy fees in HDB, HDB PUB rebates for SC only, lower school fees for SC) - I only see that level of pork barrelling increasing (although - if it helps the poor in this country I have no issue with it). Actually you pay a lot of tax here... just not direct.


Agreed.

As a Canadian, I paid a lot in taxes for the many services/benefits.

Here, in SG and as a PR, I don't pay a lot in direct taxes but if you want services, watch out. Library membership? Better fork out the $$$.


My biggest peeve here in Singapore.


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