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LETTER FROM SINGAPORE MINDEF FREAKING OUT MY WIFE

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 2:11 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Still a bit of a douche, eh? I even apologized and explained what happened. :roll:


When you wrote 'CRAP!', I thought you had deleted most of what I wrote, and rather than apologise, I thought you'd deleted it because of the extent that you thought what I wrote was 'CRAP!'.

My sincere apologies, my perception was wrong, and I hope you can see why I was quite so perplexed by the situation!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 2:18 pm

Fair enough. Poor choice of an exclamation on my part. Should have just used

DAMN! cause the first reaction, when I realized what I had done, was OH SH*T!

:oops!: :shit:

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 2:59 pm

Genuine :lol: moment. It's funny how things sometimes appear 180 degrees the reverse of that intended.

As I've probably observed before, a lot of linguistic nuance is lost when something gets written on web forums - *especially* cross-cultural ones. A bit of a minefield at times... :)

Onward ho!

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Really - no one has pointed this out?

Postby The Ref » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 4:37 pm

Sorry to call it as I see it, but ...
CompassROSE wrote:Because I am am AMERICAN, therefore my son regardless of his birthplace is AMERICAN.

Because your wife is [or was at the time] a SINGAPOREAN, therefore your son is a SINGAPOREAN.

I don't see any difference, I only see an inflated sense of entitlement that you think the "American" is more important than the "Singaporean". It seems that sense of entitlement has meant you have foolishly ignored your child's Singaporean legal duties.

Others on the forum have suggested ways to approach this, but I hope this serves as a warning for others, from any country, to consider the cultures and laws of the places they visit or live.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 5:21 pm

Ref, get your own inferiority complex under control. Any child born in Singapore with an American parent and a Singaporean parent is automatically accorded "by birth" citizenship in both countries. Unlike most other countries where the other country naturalizes the Singaporean born child. The US accords 'by birth" status as well. Therefore it does pose some slightly different problems which obviously you are clueless about.

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Postby The Ref » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 6:01 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Ref, get your own inferiority complex under control. Any child born in Singapore with an American parent and a Singaporean parent is automatically accorded "by birth" citizenship in both countries. Unlike most other countries where the other country naturalizes the Singaporean born child. The US accords 'by birth" status as well. Therefore it does pose some slightly different problems which obviously you are clueless about.

No inferiority complex here - in fact your comments mostly confirm my post.

I doubt the accuracy of the part where you say the other countries naturalise the child. If a child is born in Singapore to a Singaporean mother, I don't think any country can (automatically) revoke that child's Singaporean citizenship.

In fact the only difference is that the US automatically grants additional citizenship to the child with one US parent whereas other nationalities must apply first. But in all cases, the child is a Singaporean citizen unless action is taken by the parents.

The only cluelessness here is the OP with (paraphrased) I am an American therefore the laws of another country do not matter.
[note this is not about Americans in general, just the perceived attitude of the OP]

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 6:14 pm

SMS is right on the money on this. Unlike other country/s whereby you have to proof that biological parent is from that country and apply in order to gain parent citizenship , US of A is not.
@The REF : ways to approach this is not to circumnavigate the law of the land. I am always above board on this
I again reiterates what I posted ; Screw the NS and the child will be a defaulter hence coming back to SG will serve him no good . The longer he ponder jail time and followed by NS is there waiting and on top of that he will need to renounce one or the other citizenship
Hence to cut the chase, screw the NS and never steps back to SG. EVER
My POV as he has been living in the US since young hence there is no ties that binds him back to SG
Or serve the NS and he stills needs to renounce citizenship at 21
We are here to provide information for them to make informed decisions.
They cannot turn back the clock hence chiding them does do any good at all.
If you can give a better solution, be my guest but if not get off your high horse and stop being on the high moral ground from the way I read your post.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 7:41 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:SMS is right on the money on this. Unlike other country/s whereby you have to proof that biological parent is from that country and apply in order to gain parent citizenship , US of A is not.


Not quite true. Getting the CRBA so that you have legal evidence of your citizenship is quite the chore, especially if the mother isn't American.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/living/living_5497.html

Of course, if you're unable to prove any of those things to the consulate's satisfaction (the difficulty of which varies per country as you could imagine), you can just pay for a quite expensive DNA test.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 1:03 am

Thanks for that. I do not how the mechanism works but I have come across numerous cases here and else where whereby this route was taken. This is NOT anecdotal evidence but close friends of ours too.
This includes renouncing US citizenship and regaining it after once you have completed NS
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Comments by MScientist

Postby CompassROSE » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 3:29 am

" read carefully

1. Your son is borned in Singapore hence leaving SG at an early age and holding only US PP does not change one bit. Although he does not hold any SG PP nor gain any benefit from SG, having a SG birth cert is enough to be seen as gaining a benefit from SG gahmen. .
2. You did not state your intention to renounce his SG citizenship when he turn 13 nor did you inform ICA before that.

3. The fact that ICA manage to send a letter to your US address means they know where the child is.

4. Now he is 19 and way outside the 16 year pre enlistment requirement which mean he is categorically an NS defaulter as all male child needs to do NS at the age of 18 approx.

5.Seeking lawyer advice and representing you does not work and it has not worked before nor will work work in the future. In fact it will make matter worse

6. No one will knock on your door at night and take your child away unless your child or family is a POI.

7. Going back to SG without solving this issue will make it worse as your child might be stopped at border control in SG.

8. You have two choices.

a) screw NS and never steps back to SG . EVER

b) go back and register for NS. Maybe a small fine of $500.00 min and do NS. Then go back to US but child needs to decide to choose US or SG citizen at age 21 i.e force to by SG Gahmen as per guideline.
Renounce US citizen and stay with SG citizen but apply US citizen after that. RE apply this US back in home soil . This can be done. Seek US Immigration Lawyer on this as these route has been done by many. Important note is not to do this in US Embassy in SG "

-unquote

Woah, this is like out-of-the blue thingy!

Thought I have finished my 'homework' regarding this issue - I have already contacted NS via the email given on the MINDEF letter.
An auto reply with a reference came back that the issue will be reviewed
n an answer will be given.

Believe me, I was very polite in the letter - do no want to 'screw up' any
officers due to my ignorance.

To clarify the age issue. My son is borned on August 17, 1996. The kid just turned 17th just a couple of months back.

The MINDEF LETTER has a dateline on the registration : it is between October 16. 2013 - November 9, 2013.

quote: "3. The fact that ICA manage to send a letter to your US address means they know where the child is. " -

I was WONDERING how in the world did the MINDEF LETTER came to us. All my Singapore-in-laws did not know about this. We have called them to find out.

By the way, please clarify the following terms, you hv been using :

a. ICA
b. Gahmen

What's that?????

Quote: "2. You did not state your intention to renounce his SG citizenship when he turn 13 nor did you inform ICA before that. " -

How to contact this ICA?? at 13?? and not 21 years of age???

Come on, there must be a HANDBOOK FOR DUMMIES regarding dual citizenship !

Feedbacks please.

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Postby CompassROSE » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 3:51 am

Yes, I am clueless!!! That's why I came to this forum seeking feedbacks be it positive or negatives - Am prep for that.

However, I want to make clear that we are NOT trying to dodge SINGAPORE NATIONAL SERVICE for our sons.

If we stayed in Singapore then - yes, our boys will follow through.

Interracial marriage - different countries - American & Singaporean. There really should be a handout/pamplet for expecting parents to educate them on dual citizenship. Maybe there is or information are out there - and we're the ones who screw it up due to ignorance.

Still, I will wait for a reply from MINDEF to see how goes.

Meantime, any information I can collect from here will give me some ease to approach my wife. As is, my Singapore's father-in-law thinks what a douchebag I am - hate to give him more ammunitions to diss me;(((

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 7:40 am

CompassROSE wrote:Yes, I am clueless!!! That's why I came to this forum seeking feedbacks be it positive or negatives - Am prep for that.

However, I want to make clear that we are NOT trying to dodge SINGAPORE NATIONAL SERVICE for our sons.

If we stayed in Singapore then - yes, our boys will follow through.

Interracial marriage - different countries - American & Singaporean. There really should be a handout/pamplet for expecting parents to educate them on dual citizenship. Maybe there is or information are out there - and we're the ones who screw it up due to ignorance.

Still, I will wait for a reply from MINDEF to see how goes.

Meantime, any information I can collect from here will give me some ease to approach my wife. As is, my Singapore's father-in-law thinks what a douchebag I am - hate to give him more ammunitions to diss me;(((


Pay attention to SMS and MS - anyone else is most likely ignorant or attempting to sabo oyu.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 8:35 am

Theoretical question:

Could you be a dual citizen of say Singapore + [insert a rogue or 'enemy' state of your choice].

Renounce SGn citizenship at 15, too late to skip NS obligations.

Be a citizen of said 'rogue/enemy state', required to do NS at 18.

Seems an odd situation, lots of nice intel to be had there on the SAF.


p.s. To CpmpassRose
'By the way, please clarify the following terms, you hv been using :
a. ICA
b. Gahmen'


a) Immigrations and Checkpoints Authority (of Singapore)
b) Government

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 9:47 am

JR8 wrote:Theoretical question:

Could you be a dual citizen of say Singapore + [insert a rogue or 'enemy' state of your choice].

Renounce SGn citizenship at 15, too late to skip NS obligations.

First of all, you cannot renounce Sgn citizenship until the age of 21. Writing a letter of renunciation doesn't count as the government will not accept it. Therefore the rest is null and void.

Be a citizen of said 'rogue/enemy state', required to do NS at 18.

Seems an odd situation, lots of nice intel to be had there on the SAF.

Additionally, if holding the passport of a rogue state, the government may just waiver your obligation (as was done with the Malaysians for the first 20 years after independence here).

p.s. To CpmpassRose
'By the way, please clarify the following terms, you hv been using :
a. ICA
b. Gahmen'


a) Immigrations and Checkpoints Authority (of Singapore)
b) Government


You can lose your US citizenship if you do military service with a foreign country on the US "unfriendly" list or if you hold the position of an officer or non commissioned officer in a foreign military if ....

"U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship"

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 9:57 am

PNGMK wrote:
CompassROSE wrote:Yes, I am clueless!!! That's why I came to this forum seeking feedbacks be it positive or negatives - Am prep for that.

However, I want to make clear that we are NOT trying to dodge SINGAPORE NATIONAL SERVICE for our sons.

If we stayed in Singapore then - yes, our boys will follow through.

Interracial marriage - different countries - American & Singaporean. There really should be a handout/pamplet for expecting parents to educate them on dual citizenship. Maybe there is or information are out there - and we're the ones who screw it up due to ignorance.

Still, I will wait for a reply from MINDEF to see how goes.

Meantime, any information I can collect from here will give me some ease to approach my wife. As is, my Singapore's father-in-law thinks what a douchebag I am - hate to give him more ammunitions to diss me;(((


Pay attention to SMS and MS - anyone else is most likely ignorant or attempting to sabo oyu.


I don't think anyone is being malicious, just having side conversations.

But I agree, SMS and MS will have the best advice by far.


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