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Stolen wallet, lost Dependant Pass/FIN cards

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Mama727
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Stolen wallet, lost Dependant Pass/FIN cards

Postby Mama727 » Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:04 pm

I am really down in the dumps with my wallet being stolen today. But after checking the MOM website on reissuance of stolen DP FIN cards, I feel victimized all over again! $100 for each?!

I was told that these cards are meant to be carried around always; and a random check with a police officer asking to see your Identification Card may happen. Since I am a parent, I always have mine, and my children's DP FINs with me. IS this true though?

Have any of you gone through this process? Does this mean we have to pay freaking SGD$300 after going through the trauma of a stolen wallet? It's not like I was being careless, it was zipped in my bag and we were in a mall....

Any help appreciated. Thanks =(

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Postby beppi » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 5:01 am

I was about to write the following:
It's only S$100 the first time you need a replacement, after that it's S$300. I went through this myself and now make sure I don't lose it again!

But then I decided to check the ICA/MoM websites again: Apparently the fees have changed (when?) and it's now S$60 for each replacement card.
Where did you still find the old information?

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 7:47 am

After having had my NRIC stolen TWICE in 20 years - and possibly likely not to be able to get a new one (the last one cost $300 and I was warned that I may not be able to get another one) I carry a laminated photocopy. People (rent a cops) give me crap about, airline staff complain but I tell them that it's their stupid countries rules. The thing that really pisses me off about ICA is that they don't separate theft from carelessness and treat them that same.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 8:18 am

How they suppose to judge? Theft as a result of carelessness is probably the most common case of theft in general.

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 8:30 am

x9200 wrote:How they suppose to judge? Theft as a result of carelessness is probably the most common case of theft in general.


Police reports for stolen property should be adequate. n both cases I have had those. What they shouldnt do is charge an arm and leg for compulsory ID.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 8:50 am

I don't think it is. The police report only confirms the fact of something being lost (in many cases not even stolen) or TBP that something like this was reported. Nothing about the carelessness. Like in the OP's story, can she actually prove beyond reasonable doubts it was stolen and not left behind or accidently dropped while removing some other things from her purse/bug/etc?

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:14 am

x9200 wrote:I don't think it is. The police report only confirms the fact of something being lost (in many cases not even stolen) or TBP that something like this was reported. Nothing about the carelessness. Like in the OP's story, can she actually prove beyond reasonable doubts it was stolen and not left behind or accidently dropped while removing some other things from her purse/bug/etc?


What does it matter? We all pay taxes. If this state wants us to carry ID they should help us in that respect. Not that "show us your papers" states are usually helpful.

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 2:10 pm

PNGMK wrote:
x9200 wrote:I don't think it is. The police report only confirms the fact of something being lost (in many cases not even stolen) or TBP that something like this was reported. Nothing about the carelessness. Like in the OP's story, can she actually prove beyond reasonable doubts it was stolen and not left behind or accidently dropped while removing some other things from her purse/bug/etc?


What does it matter? We all pay taxes. If this state wants us to carry ID they should help us in that respect. Not that "show us your papers" states are usually helpful.


Normally I'd agree, but given how blur the average I/C holder is in this country, I imagine this is the only way the government has found to teach people to be more careful with their I/Cs. I would not be shocked to find out something like 5% of the population is responsible for 95% of I/C replacements, and they've each lost it at least 10 times...

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 2:18 pm

You guys are missing an important part of this fees. Prevention of selling this "stolen" legal identity to illegal syndicate. A "lost" IC can fetch from $1K to $5K. Hence the ruling is if you lost for the first time, you a given a benefit of doubt. Once it goes beyond the second loss then came the warning.
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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 2:36 pm

I don't carry my IC unless I specifically need to (travel, picking up a parcel at the post office, confirming residential status to a landlord, and so on), and that is rarely.

I wonder what the fine is for not carrying it at all times? Probably less than trying to get a new IC issued.

Maybe instead of huge fines, perhaps the security of the card should be increased instead? I.e. if they're worth that much on the black market, they must be easy to alter. Do they contain a microchip with a copy of the card details on it? Why don't they also contain an RFID chip that gets read at a port of entry/exit? In the latter case that would render a lost/stolen IC as almost worthless on the black-market.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 2:54 pm

Yep, I agree with both zzm and MS. That's why I don't really think it is not an unreasonable practice.
As for not carrying the ID I don't expect they would be very harsh on you but they still have to confirm your identity somehow. Simple remembering your NRIC/FIN number should do the job or now, when I guess all the foreigners and SC are already fingerprinted a thumb scan.

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Postby Mama727 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 4:59 pm

Thanks all for your input.

beppi, maybe I am wrong, but the page I saw on the MoM website on "Replacing Lost/Stolen Dependant Pass" states on the bottom that it's $100. I think the $60 is the first-time application administrative fee?

PNGMK, I feel so bad for you. But thank you for your input! I will definitely laminate copies of our DPs instead, and keep the original at home. JR8 and x9200, you have a point there. Maybe it's my paranoia because of the stories I hear, and I've been here only 3.5 months so far.

It was a lapse of 30 minutes-1 hour from the time I last used my wallet in the foodcourt (and put it in my bag) to buying stuff at a bookstore and realizing my wallet was not in there. We searched all the places we passed, made reports, and today I called the establishments again to no avail.

Theft would still be the case in a situation where someone carelessly left it somewhere and someone else picked it up with intent to deprive the owner... :x

And woah, I guess now I know the reason why my cheap wallet with IDs wouldn't be returned. $1-5 k in the black market?!?!

But at the end of the day, $100 "penalty" fee feels like victimization all over again. I hope the government rethinks that IC $100 / $300 penalty fee and considers JR8's suggestion!

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 6:02 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:You guys are missing an important part of this fees. Prevention of selling this "stolen" legal identity to illegal syndicate. A "lost" IC can fetch from $1K to $5K. Hence the ruling is if you lost for the first time, you a given a benefit of doubt. Once it goes beyond the second loss then came the warning.


Maybe the SPF - instead of being a bunch of lazy keypunchers - could investigate my reports of stolen IC's instead of just blowing them off?

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Postby beppi » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 6:17 pm

You are right - I did only read the first section about replacement of damaged cards (i.e. if you can show them the remains of the card) - the fee then is S$60 each time.
Replacement of lost or stolen cards costs S$100 the first and S$300 at subsequent times, so it really is a penalty for being careless.
Whether you like this rule or feel victimized is of no consequence here. It's their country, their rules. You are welcome to leave if you don't like it.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 12 Oct 2013 6:28 pm

beppi wrote: Whether you like this rule or feel victimized is of no consequence here. It's their country, their rules. You are welcome to leave if you don't like it.


Similarly onerous rules apply to citizens who lose their passports. If they don't like it, are they meant to leave too?

If we shouldn't be observing, commenting, and at times being critical, of 'their country', surely an awful lot of discussion here should be disallowed? Isn't one of the key purposes of this forum, to get to understand and know how this country functions, and chew over both the good and the bad. I.e. 'to learn and grow'?

p.s. and not many people who might wish to leave simply can. Example dependants. One needs to consider things in more than a single dimension.


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