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Tamils - the disappearing Singapore race.

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 1:45 pm

bloodhound123 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
morenangpinay wrote:which race do the majority of singapore indians come from?


Majority of Singapore Indians come from the southern part of India. We dont have racial subclassification in India.

Tamil is not a race, its a language. In singapore the India community was very diverse and not just people from South India. So although they allowed to practise Tamil as the official language, there is no way they could logically create Tamil race. There is no such race and they had to do justice to the other non Tamil comunities in Singapore, like the Malayalees, Gujarati, Punjabis etc. They did the right thing by letting in all kinds of Indians from Subcon. Integration is a different matter. That issue exists with different communities of the PRCs as well. The local chinese are Han Chinese. They cannot just ristrict immigration to only Han Chinese from the Chinese community.


Nah, you use the caste system much more effectively. :-|

While Tamil is not a race and I'm not going to go back and rehash old ground, Most south eastern Indians seem to be of Dravidian stock. Tamil was probably the largest dialectic group in the days of the British here so that because the dominant language. However, as migration from there diminished (planned or otherwise) It's given rise to intermarriages (among Indians) and interracial (other races - like mine for example), thereby diluting those original families and continuing to do so. I'm am surprised that Tamil hasn't been forced to the side in favour of Hindi, but I suspect it will come in time.


SMS - I have mentioned this in another thread as well. Dravidian-Aryan is a not a racial divide, it is a cultural divide. The racial aspect of it was propagated by the European conquerors to reign supremacy in the region. The genetic variation is very homogeneous across the subcontinent. If northern Indians are Aryans, are they genetically closer to Germans?

The relations of Tamils in the Malaya peninsula dates back much earlier than the days of British presence here. They have been trading here for over 1000 years ( Indian Pernakans for eg is an evidence of that ) , the Cholas have conquered and ruled several islands in south-east Asia.

Several of the top cabinet ministers in Singapore are Tamil ( both of Sri Lankan and Indian descent). Tamil making way for Hindi may be hard to come by ( hope it doesnt happen ).


+1. In addition to that, I would go on to say that race is a very complicated thing and not as simplistic as new immigrant countries like Singapore and America make it to be Chinese, malay, indian or black and white etc. Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race in the same manner in India we don't have any records of who belongs to which race and how many different racial variations are out there. Aryan and Dravidian is way too simplistic and the only basis is color, but then Indians are various shades of brown from pitch dark black to pure white. So where do you draw the line? Many cases where parents are dark and children are fair. One sibling is fair and another dark. So how ah?

BTW, the chances of Hindi being made the official language in Singapore is as unlikely as Singapore going and merging with Malaysia. The 4 official languages thing is part of the constitution and not some kind of a gahmen policy that can be changed on the basis of some dimwits whinging.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 3:01 pm

Wd40 wrote:Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_I ... _Card_(PRC)

I wonder how they figure out what to put in the 'Ethnicity' field on the PRC I/C then? Random selection?

Your other points may be valid, but quit tossing incorrect anecdotes or examples into all of your posts.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 4:17 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_I ... _Card_(PRC)

I wonder how they figure out what to put in the 'Ethnicity' field on the PRC I/C then? Random selection?

Your other points may be valid, but quit tossing incorrect anecdotes or examples into all of your posts.


Well, I am really surprised a country as ancient as China have managed to trace and maintain their ethnicities.

But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 4:45 pm

:roll:

Wd40 wrote:I have mentioned this in another thread as well. Dravidian-Aryan is a not a racial divide, it is a cultural divide. The racial aspect of it was propagated by the European conquerors to reign supremacy in the region. The genetic variation is very homogeneous across the subcontinent.


Wd40 wrote:But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 6:08 pm

Wd40 wrote:
But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.


No, we don't. Your Indian-centric view is again clouding your argument.

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 6:28 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.

No, we don't. Your Indian-centric view is again clouding your argument.


When young I tended to think 'Chinese are all the same' as they were a very rare encounter back home in those days. Then later I travelled in Asia, and China, and the scales were lifted from my eyes.

Compared to the arguably cookie-cutter Han, Tibetans are visibly very distinct
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/HEALTH ... afp.gi.jpg

Uighers perhaps even more so ... http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default ... tan074.jpg

It reminds me of the clear visible difference between say an Ethiopian and a Nigerian, and those countries are only 2500 miles apart, whereas China alone is about 4000 wide.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 7:28 pm

I know they are not all the same, yet sometimes when I see a Chinese person and then after few days I see another person so similar to the 1st one that I start wondering, are they the same. But somehow this happens only with Chinese(or orientals rather) and not with the whites or blacks or anyone else. May be all whites, blacks, south Asians are one big racial group and the orientals another. To them we all look alike :D
Last edited by Wd40 on Sun, 20 Oct 2013 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 7:30 pm

Same thing happens when I watch Sun TV as well. :-|

I knew I should have quoted WD40, as he's now deleted the offending bits. Guess we've got to watch that stuff, WD40's known to be slippery when sprayed anywhere.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Sun, 20 Oct 2013 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby PNGMK » Sun, 20 Oct 2013 7:59 pm

Wd40 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_I ... _Card_(PRC)

I wonder how they figure out what to put in the 'Ethnicity' field on the PRC I/C then? Random selection?

Your other points may be valid, but quit tossing incorrect anecdotes or examples into all of your posts.


Well, I am really surprised a country as ancient as China have managed to trace and maintain their ethnicities.

But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.


There's been some interesting DNA research recently done in India that confirms that caste system has enforced (ring fenced) breeding groups for thousands of years....

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 9:56 am

PNGMK wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_I ... _Card_(PRC)

I wonder how they figure out what to put in the 'Ethnicity' field on the PRC I/C then? Random selection?

Your other points may be valid, but quit tossing incorrect anecdotes or examples into all of your posts.


Well, I am really surprised a country as ancient as China have managed to trace and maintain their ethnicities.

But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.


There's been some interesting DNA research recently done in India that confirms that caste system has enforced (ring fenced) breeding groups for thousands of years....


So we can blame a lot of things on their own culturally enforced inbreeding? :cool:

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:50 am

zzm9980 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Chinese themselves is not a single race, they have plenty of variations among them and China doesn't keep records of who belongs to which race


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_I ... _Card_(PRC)

I wonder how they figure out what to put in the 'Ethnicity' field on the PRC I/C then? Random selection?

Your other points may be valid, but quit tossing incorrect anecdotes or examples into all of your posts.


Well, I am really surprised a country as ancient as China have managed to trace and maintain their ethnicities.

But you see there are 56 ethnic groups in China and we all think all Chinese are the same. In case of India there will be atleast 1000s of such ethnic groups.


There's been some interesting DNA research recently done in India that confirms that caste system has enforced (ring fenced) breeding groups for thousands of years....


So we can blame a lot of things on their own culturally enforced inbreeding? :cool:


The researchers were shocked and dismayed at how far back the ring fencing has gone - close to 5000 years I believe. They had predicted it to be a much shorter time frame.


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