Singapore Expats Forum

Work Visa Application got rejected

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4895
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 08 Nov 2013 1:29 pm

harusame wrote:so, after a long way of appeal with more reference letters from my former university

Despite strong support letter from NUS and my flawless references, the appeal got rejected again, given no further reason than just "you are not eligible to work in Singapore"

it is a research position with a certain specific expertise as requirement
we have strong evidences that i am clearly a good candidate for the position

in my opinion, it is clearly a sign that the government of Singapore now obviously has other considerations than just professional competency


Yes I tend to agree. Something in your background conflicts and you may never know what it is.

User avatar
the lynx
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5239
Joined: Thu, 09 Dec 2010
Location: Midgar

Postby the lynx » Fri, 08 Nov 2013 1:38 pm

harusame wrote:so, after a long way of appeal with more reference letters from my former university

Despite strong support letter from NUS and my flawless references, the appeal got rejected again, given no further reason than just "you are not eligible to work in Singapore"

it is a research position with a certain specific expertise as requirement
we have strong evidences that i am clearly a good candidate for the position

in my opinion, it is clearly a sign that the government of Singapore now obviously has other considerations than just professional competency


Damn, that sucks.

If one of our regulars, rdueej, is here, maybe he will help or weigh in. He works for NUS in a research position and is familiar of MOM/ICA regarding this.

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Fri, 08 Nov 2013 1:46 pm

PNGMK wrote:
harusame wrote:so, after a long way of appeal with more reference letters from my former university

Despite strong support letter from NUS and my flawless references, the appeal got rejected again, given no further reason than just "you are not eligible to work in Singapore"

it is a research position with a certain specific expertise as requirement
we have strong evidences that i am clearly a good candidate for the position

in my opinion, it is clearly a sign that the government of Singapore now obviously has other considerations than just professional competency


Yes I tend to agree. Something in your background conflicts and you may never know what it is.

well, i dont have any bad records at all
i occasionally visit singapore for holiday, visiting friends and family

NUS will try to find out the detailed reason for future references, but i doubt it will of any help, at least not in my case

It has been exhausting for both NUS and me, concerning we have been rallying effort to get me work permit for months since July 2013, only to get such negative result. They said they also could not comprehend why

Maybe it is for the best, but it is unfortunate not being able to take part in such an interesting research project only because such trivial matter

I also regret that we could not resolve the issue earlier, that i invested time into this. If only i knew, i would not turn down other opportunities during this past few months.

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Fri, 08 Nov 2013 1:55 pm

the lynx wrote:
Damn, that sucks.

If one of our regulars, rdueej, is here, maybe he will help or weigh in. He works for NUS in a research position and is familiar of MOM/ICA regarding this.

well, that would be great
but it might not of any help regarding my case, but at least i would like to know what the reason of the rejection was

rdueej
Regular
Regular
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon, 22 Jul 2013

Postby rdueej » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 1:33 am

I had noticed your earlier posts in this thread, but was thinking that the appeal should come through. Now after the rejection of the appeal, there is pretty much nothing else to be done.

The Diplom by itself would not be a reason for the rejection, as there are many others who have gotten work passes with just that qualification.

If I were to guess, I would say that it is because of the low salary/position at which you are joining (considering that you have six years of experience post-Diplom). The salary range that you quote is generally for research positions filled by recent Masters graduates from local universities.

MoM might have just looked at the salary history for similar profiles and rejected based on 'Older applicants would have to command higher salaries to qualify, commensurate with the work experience and quality they are expected to bring'. (link)

There is a small chance of the reason being your area of work. There was a case in my department last year, when the application was rejected based on applicant's nationality and the sensitive nature of the work to be carried out. It was later resolved through appeals from NUS (and other channels).

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:30 am

rdueej wrote:I had noticed your earlier posts in this thread, but was thinking that the appeal should come through. Now after the rejection of the appeal, there is pretty much nothing else to be done.

The Diplom by itself would not be a reason for the rejection, as there are many others who have gotten work passes with just that qualification.

If I were to guess, I would say that it is because of the low salary/position at which you are joining (considering that you have six years of experience post-Diplom). The salary range that you quote is generally for research positions filled by recent Masters graduates from local universities.

MoM might have just looked at the salary history for similar profiles and rejected based on 'Older applicants would have to command higher salaries to qualify, commensurate with the work experience and quality they are expected to bring'. (link)

There is a small chance of the reason being your area of work. There was a case in my department last year, when the application was rejected based on applicant's nationality and the sensitive nature of the work to be carried out. It was later resolved through appeals from NUS (and other channels).


Thanks for the input rdueej

What resent me most, is the fact that the administration process had been running since July 2013, only to come to this result.

When i accepted the position informally in July, it was only natural that i had to notify my most recent employer and had to turn down other opportunities since then. Especially because NUS was confident in employing me (as the official job contract came in September) and had a clear prospect that i could start as early as in October 2013 with the research project

I think NUS owe me at least an explanation how it came to this
This current circumstances clearly put me into a very bad situation

As the reason for rejection, MoM should have addressed the reason more than just "you are not eligible to work in Singapore". If the salary was too low, we would have negotiated the number to meet the requirement.

AngMoG
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed, 17 Apr 2013

Postby AngMoG » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 11:29 am

harusame wrote:As the reason for rejection, MoM should have addressed the reason more than just "you are not eligible to work in Singapore". If the salary was too low, we would have negotiated the number to meet the requirement.


I understand your feelings, but this one MoM will never do. Otherwise companies will just doctor their salaries to fall within the criteria. And a number of those will just kickback part of the salary to the employer.

bro75
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun, 02 Sep 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby bro75 » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 7:16 pm

To you and other applicants, when it comes to applying for work in singapore , do not resign or signify to your employer any intention to resign, as long as you do not have the IPA yet. It is what I always advise to other applicants I know.

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 7:36 pm

bro75 wrote:To you and other applicants, when it comes to applying for work in singapore , do not resign or signify to your employer any intention to resign, as long as you do not have the IPA yet. It is what I always advise to other applicants I know.


i cant possibly take a 3 years project, if i already accepted another job offer, which is supposed to start in 2 months

it would be shamelessly irresponsible if i abandon the project after 2 months of all sudden

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 7:56 pm

harusame wrote:i cant possibly take a 3 years project, if i already accepted another job offer, which is supposed to start in 2 months

it would be shamelessly irresponsible if i abandon the project after 2 months of all sudden


Accepting a job offer, doesn't mean you will take it up, as you found.

Your loyalty is rather noble, but when economic times get rough, I wonder if your employer would be so very considerate towards you. Unfortunately you're now branded as the 'disloyal loyal worker', and the guy who intended to quit, but apparently couldn't cut the mustard out in the jobs market. Might you have shot yourself in both feet?

bro75
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun, 02 Sep 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby bro75 » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 7:57 pm

harusame wrote:
bro75 wrote:To you and other applicants, when it comes to applying for work in singapore , do not resign or signify to your employer any intention to resign, as long as you do not have the IPA yet. It is what I always advise to other applicants I know.


i cant possibly take a 3 years project, if i already accepted another job offer, which is supposed to start in 2 months

it would be shamelessly irresponsible if i abandon the project after 2 months of all sudden


Yes, I understand your dilemma. But, IMO, you have to protect yourself first. Looks like you are single and can afford the risk of losing all (current job, future job) but for many this is not a good option.

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 8:33 pm

First of all, thanks a lot for all the input
I really appreciated your opinions

JR8 wrote:
Your loyalty is rather noble, but when economic times get rough, I wonder if your employer would be so very considerate towards you. Unfortunately you're now branded as the 'disloyal loyal worker', and the guy who intended to quit, but apparently couldn't cut the mustard out in the jobs market. Might you have shot yourself in both feet?

it is not about loyalty, but more likely about maintaining good relation to colleagues

without good references from colleagues, future employers/clients would not even take us into their consideration


bro75 wrote:
Yes, I understand your dilemma. But, IMO, you have to protect yourself first. Looks like you are single and can afford the risk of losing all (current job, future job) but for many this is not a good option.

I think even a single person couldn't afford the risk of losing all
it is a huge stress and a big waste of time

In my opinion, it is the mistake of the employing company for offering a position to a foreign worker, and give false promises for months, while they are actually not able to resolve the matter with the required work permit
It should have been decided earlier with a simple rejection, stating that they could not employ people without a valid work permit in Singapore.
So it doesnt have to come this far

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 9:09 pm

harusame wrote: it is not about loyalty, but more likely about maintaining good relation to colleagues


Ex-colleagues? Why does that matter?

harusame wrote: without good references from colleagues, future employers/clients would not even take us into their consideration


In banking, even 20 years ago there was a blanket policy of not giving 'personal references'. All HR would do was confirm duration of service, and salary. Full stop. And, who cares what your mates you work with say about how great they think you are...

I think the idea was references 'from colleagues' are unquantifiable, and hence value-less. I'm surprised this idea has not permeated more deeply over the decades...

bro75
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun, 02 Sep 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby bro75 » Sat, 09 Nov 2013 9:37 pm

No one in Singapore can guarantee your pass approval except MOM. Your potential employers may be at fault if they guaranteed that your pass will be approved. (Not sure whether you have any legal recourse).

But still, when planning to take up work in a different country, it is always prudent to keep your cards close to the chest and make a move only if the pass is approved. This applies to all countries where you will need a working visa to be employed. When I moved to Singapore, I also gave the notice to my current employer only upon receipt of the IPA.

Since your relationship with your current colleagues/employer is so important to you, what I believe you should have done in your case is to tell the potential employer that you would only be available X number of months after IPA approval. X will depend on how long your current employer can transfer your project to another researcher. At least you have given your current employer some courtesy and breathing space and hopefully your relationship with them will not be damaged. If the new employer does not accept this, then tell them no deal.

JR8 is also correct. In my case, I did not care about current employer/ colleagues when moving. Your responsibility is to yourself/family first. If somehow your pass was approved and you did not give any notice to your current employer, then at least you have new work and new colleagues to build professional relationships with. Not the situation you are in now. I have moved several times with minimum notice (1 month or less) and somehow this did not affect my employability. I think people will understand if you need to move for career reasons and they will understand why you did not give more notice.

harusame
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun, 29 Sep 2013

Postby harusame » Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:15 am

JR8 wrote:
harusame wrote: it is not about loyalty, but more likely about maintaining good relation to colleagues


Ex-colleagues? Why does that matter?

harusame wrote: without good references from colleagues, future employers/clients would not even take us into their consideration


In banking, even 20 years ago there was a blanket policy of not giving 'personal references'. All HR would do was confirm duration of service, and salary. Full stop. And, who cares what your mates you work with say about how great they think you are...

I think the idea was references 'from colleagues' are unquantifiable, and hence value-less. I'm surprised this idea has not permeated more deeply over the decades...

in research, i have the impression that we are expected to have a flawless track record, which means that even some of your exam record in university is still being considered important even after so many years of professional experience.

The colleagues i mean from my previous post was not only the colleagues in the same team, but colleagues i met and collaborate in a some other occasions.
We often exchange information regarding research opportunities
I find it very important to continue networking and maintain the link

In my case, i was NEVER being interviewed by HR personal, but always via direct conversation with the research team
HRD usually only do the formalities after the informal agreements


bro75 wrote:No one in Singapore can guarantee your pass approval except MOM. Your potential employers may be at fault if they guaranteed that your pass will be approved. (Not sure whether you have any legal recourse).

But still, when planning to take up work in a different country, it is always prudent to keep your cards close to the chest and make a move only if the pass is approved. This applies to all countries where you will need a working visa to be employed. When I moved to Singapore, I also gave the notice to my current employer only upon receipt of the IPA.

Since your relationship with your current colleagues/employer is so important to you, what I believe you should have done in your case is to tell the potential employer that you would only be available X number of months after IPA approval. X will depend on how long your current employer can transfer your project to another researcher. At least you have given your current employer some courtesy and breathing space and hopefully your relationship with them will not be damaged. If the new employer does not accept this, then tell them no deal.

JR8 is also correct. In my case, I did not care about current employer/ colleagues when moving. Your responsibility is to yourself/family first. If somehow your pass was approved and you did not give any notice to your current employer, then at least you have new work and new colleagues to build professional relationships with. Not the situation you are in now. I have moved several times with minimum notice (1 month or less) and somehow this did not affect my employability. I think people will understand if you need to move for career reasons and they will understand why you did not give more notice.


As the matter of fact, the funding of my last project came to end recently,
Even though i was being offered a possibility to continue working in the same project but the financial compensation was insufficient for my standard, so i opted to move and find another opportunity in another research project. My former colleagues do not have any problem with this.

I understand that my potential employer could not guarantee the work permit. However, they could have just decided much earlier.
Instead, they gave me the impression of confidence and let me wait for almost 4 months, only to come with this result.
There was another position being offered by another project team at that time, that i decided to turn down because of this.

I am certain that a well-known institution such as NUS does not handle this kind of issue for the first time. There is no excuse to a pending employment status for almost 4 months, especially because before they sent me the official contract, they told me they needed to approve all related documents to Ministry of Finance and MoM.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest