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Women earning more than men - has it come to Singapore?

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 12:37 pm

kookaburrah wrote:
x9200 wrote:Are you taking about 2yo boys or girls? That young (and younger) boys tend to run around separately. Girls tend to sit together and play. Girls are more social from the infancy age. Boys are less.


That may even be a tendency. But because we have come to expect it, these will be reinforced. Boys who don't run, will be encouraged to, girls will be grouped together and expected to sit. This is not necessarily bad, or wrong. But not only it standardises gender roles, but it promotes a culture that penalises outliers (another topic for another long long thread).

It is like they try to get a group of children to sit down and do some work and these are the boys who tend to run around and girls who are more willing to participate.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 12:41 pm

Hannieroo wrote:Both of mine are and were very social but you have to factor in other things. Family genetics count too.

An individual always rules based on more specific factors. Could be the genetics. I am prety asocial.

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 12:45 pm

x9200 wrote:Mine (almost 3) is either exploring or running around if all already explored. Not too social so far. He doesn't have too many dolls becasue he was never interested in them (teddy bears included).


My 2 year old daughter doesn't like dolls either. She like tearing open stuff, exploring stuff, like building blocks. Her favorite thing to do nowadays is remove the battery cover from the remote controls and play with them. Climb shelves pull out all the clothes. Bring a water bottle and spit water out in another cup. Go and switch on/off and remove plugs etc. Definitely not girly things. :)

She does like wearing bangles, clips and necklaces though. Thats something girly.
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Postby Hannieroo » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 12:47 pm

x9200 wrote:
kookaburrah wrote:
x9200 wrote:Are you taking about 2yo boys or girls? That young (and younger) boys tend to run around separately. Girls tend to sit together and play. Girls are more social from the infancy age. Boys are less.


That may even be a tendency. But because we have come to expect it, these will be reinforced. Boys who don't run, will be encouraged to, girls will be grouped together and expected to sit. This is not necessarily bad, or wrong. But not only it standardises gender roles, but it promotes a culture that penalises outliers (another topic for another long long thread).

It is like they try to get a group of children to sit down and do some work and these are the boys who tend to run around and girls who are more willing to participate.


This is why I like the PYP system. It teaches in several different ways to suit the child.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 1:19 pm

But PYP is from the 3rd year on?

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Postby Hannieroo » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 1:29 pm

No, my boys do it from the start. I think the philosophy is incorporated into the 3 years old class too.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 1:46 pm

He is in CIS in Parent and Child Programme and CIS is like boiling everywhere with IB PYP so maybe this is the PYP?

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Postby Hannieroo » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 2:02 pm

Probably. It's unit of enquiry based so very good for younger children who learn through doing.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 5:05 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:SE, you need to visit again a kindergarten and observe 2yo children playing. Unless you claim they are already culturally conditioned and biased at this age.
We should be all equal in our rights and not forcibly made the same. We are not the same and never will be unless the condition I mentioned. It's pure biochemistry. We receive different chemical treatment starting from the womb and continuing for most of our lives. This shapes and controls our emotional responses. The emotional range, as you mentioned is probably similar, but the triger-release-standby characteristics is surely very different. And if we are different we have different preferences, also regarding the jobs.

Yes, there is a strong part based on cultural preconditioning but I guess this is the part nobody disputes here. Macho, patriarchal dominance etc. This should be controlled despite of the hormones, but go beyond this popular and rather basic frame and you will see that it has its limits. These gender assigned and sex based roles are pretty mixed up and really hard to make a clear cut.


Again, you miss the point. Do you want someone like Bobby Knight, whose idea of "tough love" is to scream and yell, hang boxes of tampons on the lockers of players who didn't perform to his expectations and call them "pussies" teaching young men what it means to live a man's life in this world?

I sure don't... a worse role model could not be found. You think Robin Thicke, a 36 year old married man, dry humping Miley Cyrus on stage while singing a song whose lyrics suggest that forced sex is maybe OK is the kind of role model you want young men to imitate and follow?

I sure don't. I want men to be taught ways of living that supports them as men in a world where respect, love, integrity, accountability, and authenticity trump the kind of crap that passes for education these days... they don't need to be "made the same".


I certainly agree that the wretched macho expectations of Australian (and American and Canadian and British) young men is just awful.

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 5:07 pm

PNGMK wrote:I certainly agree that the wretched macho expectations of Australian (and American and Canadian and British) young men is just awful.


On the other extreme, the emasculation of Asian men by tiger moms and parrot education is just as pathetic.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:36 pm

the lynx wrote:
PNGMK wrote:I certainly agree that the wretched macho expectations of Australian (and American and Canadian and British) young men is just awful.


On the other extreme, the emasculation of Asian men by tiger moms and parrot education is just as pathetic.


You, I like.

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Postby yogaloungeforever » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:22 am

Why can't (Asian) women have a job that pays them well whilst at the same time have a hubby who's happy to be house bound? I know a coupla asian women here in Singapore / M'asia who earn more than their hubbies and still have a happy marriage. In fact I am seeing them hubbies are happy to be house husbands!
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Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:30 am

kookaburrah wrote:
In fact, i'd say that this issue would be far less problematic, if most of us had been less coached when we were 2, and just allowed to do as we pleased.


My personal philosphy. I believe we all want to have a good life and do the right thing but they are too many messages and distractions out there interfering with this innate nature of ours. Although as a mom, I find it hard to implement when my kids prefer to feast on candy and chips rather than the healthy meal I cooked for them. I prefer they make their own choices but sometimes it is hard to stand by and not try to re-direct them.

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Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:40 am

x9200 wrote:
That young (and younger) boys tend to run around separately. Girls tend to sit together and play. Girls are more social from the infancy age. Boys are less. I don't see too much cultural impact at such young age.


At an early age, they already have strong observation skills and notice how people behave in social settings and wise up to that knowledge. Wheather or not they go along has a lot to do with their personalities... conformistic vs independent-minded.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:53 am

PNGMK wrote:
the lynx wrote:
PNGMK wrote:I certainly agree that the wretched macho expectations of Australian (and American and Canadian and British) young men is just awful.


On the other extreme, the emasculation of Asian men by tiger moms and parrot education is just as pathetic.


You, I like.


This beautifully brackets the entire topic. It's not about SNAG's, or macho men, or metrosexuals, or about men being like women (although one woman I know seems to think that the perfect man would be a woman with a dick).

It is about acknowledging the full scope of what men are, not not stuffing them into stereotypical expectations of what men should be.


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