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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:14 pm

Now, if they only had enough common sense to be able to put it to use! :lol:

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:45 pm

IQ means jack shit if not put to good use. Otherwise, all those tests just equate to intellectual masturbation.

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Postby disenchanted » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:52 pm

I love the concept of a 'true blue Singaporean.' Its one of the most comedic terms I came across in my life because its so damn muddy. Now, let's look at the possible inversions using Singaporeans' favorite argument - National Service. Would you call those folks Singaporeans or Foreigners? All those cases are based on real people I know.

Case 1: A PR guy who was living here since birth until 18 and then escaped overseas never to come back right before NS. He speaks fluent Singlish, loves Singaporean food and stays in touch with plenty of local friends after leaving.

Case 2: A Singaporean girl whose parents were from Malaysia/UK. She speaks perfect Queen's English, travels the world and hates Singapore despite spending her whole life here. By the virtue of her gender, she obviously doesn't serve NS which removes one of the arguable factors.

Case 3: A Malaysian Chinese PR guy who comes to Singapore just merely before due enlistment. His first time in town is on his way to Tekong and he might even still live in Johor Bahru with his parents. Serves the due time, has a culture similar to locals.

Case 4: Not so extreme - a PR guy who spend a share of his life in here, went to a public school and then enlisted despite not considering himself a Singaporean and acting, appearing, speaking and thinking in a very non-local way. Stays in Singapore due to personal commitments. (that'd be me).

Case 5: A guy born in Singapore but raised overseas, in Canada, US or Australia, who only came back for NS. Speaks 'angmo' English, been to Singapore maybe a few times throughout his whole life and has no goddamn clue what are his bunkmates talking about to each other.

Case 5: A Singaporean born to two foreigners, spend years overseas speaks international English, went to OCS and never studied in a local school before.

Now, who is a Singaporean and who's not? Its impossible to tell because this place has always been on crossroads and this kind of mixing has always been taking place. And yet some morons on some websites insist they can grant someone the divine title of a 'true blue local.'

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Postby katbh » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 1:34 pm

^+1

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 2:13 pm

^^ +1 more!

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 5:39 pm

^^^ +1 more from me too.

nakatago wrote:IQ means jack shit if not put to good use. Otherwise, all those tests just equate to intellectual masturbation.

Indeed. It's a little known fact that this deer has a very high IQ :twisted:

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Postby touchring » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 8:20 am

ScoobyDoes wrote:
touchring wrote:In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.



This isn't an inevitability.

It's cliché but there are things money can't buy and it will take a very good effort for Singapore to degenerate into an environment that makes everywhere in the 'West' look good again.

It has time to prevent that, but significant changes to the population size and car numbers are required to keep a lifestyle in place that people still want. If Singapore becomes 'just another city' it's finished.



Until now, Singapore has been following the China SimCity style of development by bringing as many people into the city as possible, the rich, blue collar workers, professionals. This is how the Beijing and Shanghai grew as population doubled in the last 20 years.

But unlike Shanghai and Beijing which can expand outwards, Singapore is only a small island. Singapore needs a population growth of 2% a year to avoid falling into recession.

At this rate, in 10 years, Singapore will have another 1.2 million people out of which probably 10%, 120,000 are high income earners or wealthy individuals all wanting to buy a car and a COE.

At 2% growth a year, by 2033, Singapore will have over 8 million people, and by then, only reasonably wealthy individuals can afford to own a car when the 10 year COE which will cost perhaps half a million dollars in today's money?

Even a primary school kid knows this is unsustainable.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 10:18 am

If Singapore could up its efficiency it wouldn't need many of the import labour and could improve GDP with less than it has now.

The government is bringing in programs to boost efficiency but as long as labour is cheaper, without large capital expenditure, then cash flow and profit for local companies will remain. There is little in the way in incentive.

It is wrong to think the island 'needs' population growth - it needs to work smarter.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 10:26 am

ScoobyDoes wrote:If Singapore could up its efficiency it wouldn't need many of the import labour and could improve GDP with less than it has now.

The government is bringing in programs to boost efficiency but as long as labour is cheaper, without large capital expenditure, then cash flow and profit for local companies will remain. There is little in the way in incentive.

It is wrong to think the island 'needs' population growth - it needs to work smarter.


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Postby AngMoG » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 1:25 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:If Singapore could up its efficiency it wouldn't need many of the import labour and could improve GDP with less than it has now.

The government is bringing in programs to boost efficiency but as long as labour is cheaper, without large capital expenditure, then cash flow and profit for local companies will remain. There is little in the way in incentive.

It is wrong to think the island 'needs' population growth - it needs to work smarter.


I always see all those programs for SMEs to improve efficiency with IT... but frankly, if your company is very small (less than 20), there is simply no way one would save significant manpower by implementing IT. If they actually worked more efficiently, who knows, maybe they could employ fewer people - for example, in F&B.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 2:10 pm

Hell, if they would just eat breakfast before coming to work, it would be a 12.5% increase in productivity right there!

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Postby Mi Amigo » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 2:47 pm

... And create a less putrid smelling workplace in the process.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby disenchanted » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 7:53 pm

touchring wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
touchring wrote:In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.



This isn't an inevitability.

It's cliché but there are things money can't buy and it will take a very good effort for Singapore to degenerate into an environment that makes everywhere in the 'West' look good again.

It has time to prevent that, but significant changes to the population size and car numbers are required to keep a lifestyle in place that people still want. If Singapore becomes 'just another city' it's finished.



Until now, Singapore has been following the China SimCity style of development by bringing as many people into the city as possible, the rich, blue collar workers, professionals. This is how the Beijing and Shanghai grew as population doubled in the last 20 years.

But unlike Shanghai and Beijing which can expand outwards, Singapore is only a small island. Singapore needs a population growth of 2% a year to avoid falling into recession.

At this rate, in 10 years, Singapore will have another 1.2 million people out of which probably 10%, 120,000 are high income earners or wealthy individuals all wanting to buy a car and a COE.

At 2% growth a year, by 2033, Singapore will have over 8 million people, and by then, only reasonably wealthy individuals can afford to own a car when the 10 year COE which will cost perhaps half a million dollars in today's money?

Even a primary school kid knows this is unsustainable.


Now, the key problem with both productivity and the near-mythical 'innovation' here is the mindset of the workforce. I've been temporarily staying in quite a few countries and what strikes me the most about today's Singapore is that almost nobody seems to believe in what they do.

I don't know if we can attribute it more to the commanding parents, the social over-engineering throughout education and NS or both, but the impression I'm getting is that most people only wants to drag it somehow till the end of the day, get the paycheck and screw off. Its like everybody ended up in professions and lives they didn't want on the first place and their passions and interests were suppressed sometime before they even developed. The general apathy Singaporeans demonstrate is pathological and this is the main bottleneck in Singapore reaching its full potential as a truly global, influential city. You really don't need 5 or 7 or 10 million people to do that, you need a workforce that's passionate.

Singaporeans CAN do it. Anthony Chen is a great example. But the bulk of the population still needs to swap their endurance for spirit, ego for pride and habits for a culture. Maybe if that happens, this place will flourish from the bottom upwards and not the other way around.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 8:08 pm

disenchanted wrote:
touchring wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
touchring wrote:In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.



This isn't an inevitability.

It's cliché but there are things money can't buy and it will take a very good effort for Singapore to degenerate into an environment that makes everywhere in the 'West' look good again.

It has time to prevent that, but significant changes to the population size and car numbers are required to keep a lifestyle in place that people still want. If Singapore becomes 'just another city' it's finished.



Until now, Singapore has been following the China SimCity style of development by bringing as many people into the city as possible, the rich, blue collar workers, professionals. This is how the Beijing and Shanghai grew as population doubled in the last 20 years.

But unlike Shanghai and Beijing which can expand outwards, Singapore is only a small island. Singapore needs a population growth of 2% a year to avoid falling into recession.

At this rate, in 10 years, Singapore will have another 1.2 million people out of which probably 10%, 120,000 are high income earners or wealthy individuals all wanting to buy a car and a COE.

At 2% growth a year, by 2033, Singapore will have over 8 million people, and by then, only reasonably wealthy individuals can afford to own a car when the 10 year COE which will cost perhaps half a million dollars in today's money?

Even a primary school kid knows this is unsustainable.


Now, the key problem with both productivity and the near-mythical 'innovation' here is the mindset of the workforce. I've been temporarily staying in quite a few countries and what strikes me the most about today's Singapore is that almost nobody seems to believe in what they do.

I don't know if we can attribute it more to the commanding parents, the social over-engineering throughout education and NS or both, but the impression I'm getting is that most people only wants to drag it somehow till the end of the day, get the paycheck and screw off. Its like everybody ended up in professions and lives they didn't want on the first place and their passions and interests were suppressed sometime before they even developed. The general apathy Singaporeans demonstrate is pathological and this is the main bottleneck in Singapore reaching its full potential as a truly global, influential city. You really don't need 5 or 7 or 10 million people to do that, you need a workforce that's passionate.

Singaporeans CAN do it. Anthony Chen is a great example. But the bulk of the population still needs to swap their endurance for spirit, ego for pride and habits for a culture. Maybe if that happens, this place will flourish from the bottom upwards and not the other way around.


A certain political party turned this society into one of the most risk adverse I've known.

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Postby disenchanted » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 8:19 pm

PNGMK wrote:
disenchanted wrote:
touchring wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
touchring wrote:In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.



This isn't an inevitability.

It's cliché but there are things money can't buy and it will take a very good effort for Singapore to degenerate into an environment that makes everywhere in the 'West' look good again.

It has time to prevent that, but significant changes to the population size and car numbers are required to keep a lifestyle in place that people still want. If Singapore becomes 'just another city' it's finished.



Until now, Singapore has been following the China SimCity style of development by bringing as many people into the city as possible, the rich, blue collar workers, professionals. This is how the Beijing and Shanghai grew as population doubled in the last 20 years.

But unlike Shanghai and Beijing which can expand outwards, Singapore is only a small island. Singapore needs a population growth of 2% a year to avoid falling into recession.

At this rate, in 10 years, Singapore will have another 1.2 million people out of which probably 10%, 120,000 are high income earners or wealthy individuals all wanting to buy a car and a COE.

At 2% growth a year, by 2033, Singapore will have over 8 million people, and by then, only reasonably wealthy individuals can afford to own a car when the 10 year COE which will cost perhaps half a million dollars in today's money?

Even a primary school kid knows this is unsustainable.


Now, the key problem with both productivity and the near-mythical 'innovation' here is the mindset of the workforce. I've been temporarily staying in quite a few countries and what strikes me the most about today's Singapore is that almost nobody seems to believe in what they do.

I don't know if we can attribute it more to the commanding parents, the social over-engineering throughout education and NS or both, but the impression I'm getting is that most people only wants to drag it somehow till the end of the day, get the paycheck and screw off. Its like everybody ended up in professions and lives they didn't want on the first place and their passions and interests were suppressed sometime before they even developed. The general apathy Singaporeans demonstrate is pathological and this is the main bottleneck in Singapore reaching its full potential as a truly global, influential city. You really don't need 5 or 7 or 10 million people to do that, you need a workforce that's passionate.

Singaporeans CAN do it. Anthony Chen is a great example. But the bulk of the population still needs to swap their endurance for spirit, ego for pride and habits for a culture. Maybe if that happens, this place will flourish from the bottom upwards and not the other way around.


A certain political party turned this society into one of the most risk adverse I've known.


Well, I agree but prefer not to go into local politics. I'll leave it to the locals.


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