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Firms must try to hire Singaporeans first from Aug 2014

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 1:41 pm

I cant believe articles like these have appeared on Today:

http://www.todayonline.com/voices/dont- ... g-job-bank

http://www.todayonline.com/voices/contr ... moms-radar

These people must understand one fundamental difference between Singapore and other developed countries like UK, USA etc. The latter have mostly local companies, local clients and local business whereas Singapore have foreign companies, foreign clients and foreign business.

These foreign companies dont need to be present here. The only reason they were here because it was relatively easier to do business. If that fundamental thing changes and you start making it difficult to do business, these companies will just relocate.

Like somebody said earlier in this thread, this is a very slippery path of no return and now it can only get worse.

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Postby iloverice » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 1:48 pm

WD40, I thought the links from those under SPH are not allowed?

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 1:49 pm

iloverice wrote:WD40, I thought the links from those under SPH are not allowed?


No, they are media corp, different from SPH. CNA is also allowed.

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Postby AngMoG » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 2:21 pm

Wd40 wrote:I cant believe articles like these have appeared on Today:

http://www.todayonline.com/voices/dont- ... g-job-bank

http://www.todayonline.com/voices/contr ... moms-radar

These people must understand one fundamental difference between Singapore and other developed countries like UK, USA etc. The latter have mostly local companies, local clients and local business whereas Singapore have foreign companies, foreign clients and foreign business.

These foreign companies dont need to be present here. The only reason they were here because it was relatively easier to do business. If that fundamental thing changes and you start making it difficult to do business, these companies will just relocate.

Like somebody said earlier in this thread, this is a very slippery path of no return and now it can only get worse.


Wow. Granted, those are just opinions by random people, and you hear such persons of lower intellect also voice out in a lot of other countries. As a proponent of free speech, I find it good that they are given an opportunity to voice out on government media, but having lived in Singapore for a while, I am always wary when they publish such opinions, as they rarely do so without afterthought. I think those people misunderstand the basics of economics... Such measures would make the hiring process a lot more difficult and expensive, and that together with the high cost here would just drive businesses out.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 3:35 pm

touchring wrote:p/s: As for TRE brought up by Addadude, I wouldn't be bothered by TRE, most Singaporeans don't bother to read TRE or don't even know about the existence of that website.

Well there are hundreds of comments on TRE and other sites of that ilk, so a significant number of Singaporeans obviously do visit them (I'm sure there are many more readers than commenters). More to the point, these kinds of sites pop up when searching for Singapore on Google, so companies researching possible locations for their operations in Asia will find them.

If we'd come across this kind of xenophobic hatred and blatant racist abuse online (e.g. "F**K OFF - WE'RE FULL") when we were considering where to locate our first office in the region nearly a decade ago, I think we'd have probably given Singapore a wide berth. As it is, we are now hiring people in HK, mainland China, India, etc. at a far greater rate than here. At our 'HQ' Singapore is now unfavourably considered to be a difficult, high cost location.

The country has a metaphorical gun pointed at its feet and there are many people clambering to pull the trigger. Sad for Singapore, but beneficial for other countries who will attract the inward investment and employment opportunities instead.
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Postby ScoobyDoes » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 4:10 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:The country has a metaphorical gun pointed at its feet and there are many people clambering to pull the trigger. Sad for Singapore, but beneficial for other countries who will attract the inward investment and employment opportunities instead.



I think you'll find that gun is pointed at its nuts, not its feet.

Expansion is possible without feet.

I find it hard to correlate 'Aging Population' and 'locals won't clean up sh!t or work in construction' with the overall distain for anybody from outside that tries to do any work here, and a push to keep limited the number of workers that try.

What needs to happen is to start sending all Singaporeans back from Europe, the US, Australia, Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and India back to this little island because it is obvious that if this kind of xenophobic diatribe is a general feeling of a population and is left to grow then they'll have no problem when all other countries reciprocate.

The only problem for Singapore in such a game, it is just a bit-part player with just over 3m citizens locally.
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Postby morenangpinay » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 4:39 pm

where are all these complaining people. We tried to hire locals 5 times in three months...there were only few applicants and the ones applying weren't even quality applicants. either they like job hopping, or they don't like the office interiors, or they don't like the location of the office or their expected salaries were too high for their experience. so in the end we just outsource the job.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 4:57 pm

Last time we recruited for a position here we had similar problems. One candidate refused to come for an interview unless we agreed to his minimum salary requirements before we even spoke to him. He even emailed back to revise the figure upwards. Needless to say we declined to ask him in. He's probably one of the sad fools bleating about not being hired on the Xenophobe Emeritus site. We did hire a Singaporean for the role in the end, but the attitude of some of the applicants I've seen over the years has been breathtaking. Talk about entitlement complex.
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Postby touchring » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 6:25 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:Last time we recruited for a position here we had similar problems. One candidate refused to come for an interview unless we agreed to his minimum salary requirements before we even spoke to him. He even emailed back to revise the figure upwards. Needless to say we declined to ask him in. He's probably one of the sad fools bleating about not being hired on the Xenophobe Emeritus site. We did hire a Singaporean for the role in the end, but the attitude of some of the applicants I've seen over the years has been breathtaking. Talk about entitlement complex.



The entitlement complex maybe indirectly nurtured by the government, that publicizes "goodies", free cash before an election.

Job hopping is a serious problem in Singapore. From what I've heard, job hopping is also a problem in China, not sure about HK.

Had done some Googling on the reason for job hopping in the past, a few explanations came up, peer pressure, a lack of security and an entitlement complex as you mentioned.

A psychologist may offer a better explanation. :)

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 7:15 pm

touchring wrote:The entitlement complex maybe indirectly nurtured by the government, that publicizes "goodies", free cash before an election.

There may be some truth in that, but blaming everything on the government (as many do) is really just deflecting the issue. As Addadude said, these folks need to "look in the mirror."

Sure, it could be argued that the gahmen's policies over successive generations have led to a situation where a significant proportion of the population ended up becoming zombie-like automata, unable to make a sensible decision (or, more likely, any decision at all) when confronted with a 'non standard' situation. But, until recently at least, the populace has gone along with the system, on the tacit understanding that everyone's prosperity would continue to increase year-on-year.

So 'foreign talent' with more worldly experience has been necessary to ensure there are sufficient people around to take the tough decisions. You wouldn't believe the number of meetings and situations I've been involved in over the years, where the Singaporeans involved have been solely obsessed with finding someone to blame for a problem, and utterly incapable of focussing on actually solving it and preventing it from happening again. It's an exasperating experience. To be clear, I'm not saying all Singaporeans are like that - for example, the colleagues I've managed to recruit all had previous experience with MNCs and therefore a different mentality, but it's not been easy to find enough of them.

Now of course, the grand (unspoken) bargain is over, everyone is unhappy and it's apparently all the fault of the gahmen and the 'foreign trash', who ironically are either directly or indirectly employing many of the people who are complaining, or are doing jobs that the precious Singaporeans consider to be beneath them. I don't see a way out of this for Singapore - it feels like a corner has been turned and I for one no longer feel comfortable living in a country where I am despised just by virtue of not being of the 'True Blue' persuasion.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 8:30 pm

touchring wrote:Job hopping is a serious problem in Singapore. From what I've heard, job hopping is also a problem in China, not sure about HK.

Had done some Googling on the reason for job hopping in the past, a few explanations came up, peer pressure, a lack of security and an entitlement complex as you mentioned.

A psychologist may offer a better explanation. :)


Another reason to get a psychologist is the silly habit of Singaporeans always bring up other places to try to deflect the unpleasantness of their not being able to refute something, rather than staring it in the face, admitting it and figuring out how to effectively change it rather than, as Mi Amigo said, trying to find somebody else or something else to blame their own shortcomings on. You actually pick the wrong forum to try it on. Most of us have been here a long, long time and I warrant you that all of us have huge amounts of experience with the employment of Singaporeans of all races.

If you are a Gen Y'er, and I think you are, you might want to read this. The problem with Gen Ys is not confined to just Singapore, but most don't want to deliberately bring down a government/society/country like the mindless lemmings here are trying to do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but- ... 30620.html

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 9:01 pm

Off topic. I was born in Feb 1980. Looks like I am Gen X according to wiki. Missed Gen Y, damn :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_y

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Postby touchring » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:11 pm

Wd40 wrote:Off topic. I was born in Feb 1980. Looks like I am Gen X according to wiki. Missed Gen Y, damn :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_y



Then I'm many years older than you. ;)

I bear no illusions that authoritarian governments can be changed by an outside force. The change must come from within the party itself.

Just what what happened in Japan 150 years ago, South Korea 30 years ago, and now Myanmar. If the government doesn't want to change, nothing can. Just take for example Syria and Egypt. Having seen what happened to Syria, the Egyptian people chose the military government over anarchy.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Another reason to get a psychologist is the silly habit of Singaporeans always bring up other places to try to deflect the unpleasantness of their not being able to refute something, rather than staring it in the face, admitting it and figuring out how to effectively change it rather than, as Mi Amigo said, trying to find somebody else or something else to blame their own shortcomings on. You actually pick the wrong forum to try it on. Most of us have been here a long, long time and I warrant you that all of us have huge amounts of experience with the employment of Singaporeans of all races.


I'm not ignorant of the fact that Singaporeans are not the best employees around, I myself have dealt with people of different nationality in their own country.

That being said, Singaporeans are also not the worst people to employ in Asia. I'm referring to people employed in their own respective countries. Foreigners working in a foreign country will definitely work many times harder than locals. The same applies to Singaporeans that are FT themselves in a foreign country.

In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:52 am

touchring wrote:In the medium term, as the economies in the West improve, interest rates will rise, the US$, Euro and Pound will appreciate significantly against Asian currencies, people will start leaving for better pay back home regardless of how "pro-foreigner" the government policies are in Singapore. This is something that is inevitable and the Singapore government recognizes that.



This isn't an inevitability.

It's cliché but there are things money can't buy and it will take a very good effort for Singapore to degenerate into an environment that makes everywhere in the 'West' look good again.

It has time to prevent that, but significant changes to the population size and car numbers are required to keep a lifestyle in place that people still want. If Singapore becomes 'just another city' it's finished.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'



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Postby AngMoG » Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:03 am

Well, to put some oil on the fire... supposedly, Singaporeans are the most intelligent people... link

To say it with Austin Powers, "science".


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