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Firms must try to hire Singaporeans first from Aug 2014

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touchring
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Postby touchring » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 6:56 pm

katbh wrote:I agree with SMS totally.

There is just no argument. People would employ locally if they could. It is easier and cheaper - simple as that.

But they can not hire locally.

And if Singaporeans keep being nasty to 'foreign' talent......

And what is it with the word 'foreigners' anyway. It is bandied around her and used as an insult. Good way to welcome people.




Yes, of course they can't as the locals don't have the skill nor do they have the commitment nor are there enough of them.

So what's the solution?

In my opinion, these companies should leave Singapore. For every company that leaves Singapore, it will free up competition for everything - reduces rent, the cost of living, ease up the traffic and also labor.

The government can't be too direct, but I believe the policies for the past 2 years had been geared towards this end.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 7:01 pm

How naive. If foreign companies leave, Singapore will become a backwater fishing village once again.

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Postby AngMoG » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 7:54 pm

Wd40 wrote:How naive. If foreign companies leave, Singapore will become a backwater fishing village once again.


I think the government navigated themselves into a no-win situation...

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 8:09 pm

Wd40 wrote:How naive. If foreign companies leave, Singapore will become a backwater fishing village once again.


Not with all those ships have done to the waters.

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Postby Addadude » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 8:27 pm

touchring wrote:During World War II, a fifth to a quarter of all men in Singapore were killed. Singapore had just as many foreigners then as it had today. I believe many fled and went back to their country. That didn't destroy Singapore.


My friend, this is what I call the Taxi Driver Argument. As in I've heard this comment many times from (usually older) taxi drivers. That somehow, the Ang Moh deserted Singapore in its hour of need, leaving the local populace to the not so tender mercies of the Japanese. My answer to that comment was and is always the same: "yes indeed, the 'Ang Moh' did surrender Singapore. But then who won it back?" (One rather deluded taxi driver actually insisted that it was none other than Mr. Lee Kwan Yew himself who kicked the Japs out!)

Singapore has and always will need a rather heavy foreign presence to make it economically viable. LKY himself has admitted as much and geared the entire Singapore economy around this principle. The real key to this city state's success has always been its willingness to embrace external investment and to look outward to the world for trade and talent.

Now has this led to many "foreigners" (I hate that term) taking advantage of and exploiting this situation? Undoubtedly. If you've perused this forum for any length of time, you will have come across some of these chancers been severely taken to task by regulars here.

Instead of Whining, Bitching and Moaning But Never Actually Doing Anything About It (which, if it were an Olympic sport, would have guaranteed Singapore a gold medal many times over), locals with these kind of chips on their weary shoulders should take a good long look in the mirror and stop making excuses for themselves.

Can't get laid 'cos all the Singapore chicks are swooning over FT?
Learn some social skills, brush up on what constitutes good manners and figure out how to hold a decent conversation.

Keep being passed over for promotion by FT who leave the office before you but actually get more work done?
Spend less time on Facebook, eat your breakfast BEFORE office hours begin, and work through lunch when you have to meet a deadline.

Under the thumb of your mommy and daddy but can't afford a place of your own?
Rent a flat with some friends! (Mind you, you'll probably have to learn how to iron your own clothes and make your own bed.)

And for goodness sake, stop whining about the inconvenience of NS and reservist training! 2 weeks on reservist on top of the average 2 weeks of annual leave will not have any real economic impact on a company's performance. (Sorry, but you're not THAT precious.)

In other words, get over yourself and get on with using all the advantages that a prosperous economy and good education has given you.

Who knows, if you are good enough, you might well become a highly paid FT yourself!
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 8:39 pm

Touché!

That kind of reply could have only come from an Adman!!!

:P

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Postby jwop2800 » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:49 pm

Addadude wrote:
touchring wrote:During World War II, a fifth to a quarter of all men in Singapore were killed. Singapore had just as many foreigners then as it had today. I believe many fled and went back to their country. That didn't destroy Singapore.


My friend, this is what I call the Taxi Driver Argument. As in I've heard this comment many times from (usually older) taxi drivers. That somehow, the Ang Moh deserted Singapore in its hour of need, leaving the local populace to the not so tender mercies of the Japanese. My answer to that comment was and is always the same: "yes indeed, the 'Ang Moh' did surrender Singapore. But then who won it back?" (One rather deluded taxi driver actually insisted that it was none other than Mr. Lee Kwan Yew himself who kicked the Japs out!)

Singapore has and always will need a rather heavy foreign presence to make it economically viable. LKY himself has admitted as much and geared the entire Singapore economy around this principle. The real key to this city state's success has always been its willingness to embrace external investment and to look outward to the world for trade and talent.

Now has this led to many "foreigners" (I hate that term) taking advantage of and exploiting this situation? Undoubtedly. If you've perused this forum for any length of time, you will have come across some of these chancers been severely taken to task by regulars here.

Instead of Whining, Bitching and Moaning But Never Actually Doing Anything About It (which, if it were an Olympic sport, would have guaranteed Singapore a gold medal many times over), locals with these kind of chips on their weary shoulders should take a good long look in the mirror and stop making excuses for themselves.

Can't get laid 'cos all the Singapore chicks are swooning over FT?
Learn some social skills, brush up on what constitutes good manners and figure out how to hold a decent conversation.

Keep being passed over for promotion by FT who leave the office before you but actually get more work done?
Spend less time on Facebook, eat your breakfast BEFORE office hours begin, and work through lunch when you have to meet a deadline.

Under the thumb of your mommy and daddy but can't afford a place of your own?
Rent a flat with some friends! (Mind you, you'll probably have to learn how to iron your own clothes and make your own bed.)

And for goodness sake, stop whining about the inconvenience of NS and reservist training! 2 weeks on reservist on top of the average 2 weeks of annual leave will not have any real economic impact on a company's performance. (Sorry, but you're not THAT precious.)

In other words, get over yourself and get on with using all the advantages that a prosperous economy and good education has given you.

Who knows, if you are good enough, you might well become a highly paid FT yourself!


You are stereotyping. Not all people behave in this way.
There are people who are really good.

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Postby jwop2800 » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:53 pm

the lynx wrote:
jwop2800 wrote:I would like to know the forum members' opinion on how to prevent or solve this kind of problems if you all disagreed with the new hiring rule.


Didn't mean to be rude, but you sound like a journalist or columnist looking for (free) materials for your next writing.


No, i am not a journalist or writer.
I am here seeking other views on this matter.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:13 am

jwop2800 wrote:
You are stereotyping. Not all people behave in this way.
There are people who are really good.


Sure he is. Just like Kiasuism is a stereotype and also the legendary rudeness here. Stereotypes come about, not because all are like that, but because the percentage of them here versus elsewhere is considerably higher, thereby standing out more. Sadly, I find it to be too true. Singapore's Leaders are looked favourably upon around the world, but it citizens are looked at with dread. Hotels around the world hate Singaporeans and try to nail everything down when they rent hotel rooms. The Singapore Buffet Syndrome is legendary world wide and and their rudeness is only second to those from the PRC. Yep, the people of Singapore are stereotyped, and it's not good, rather accurate and they only have themselves to blame. They go around with an entitlement complex that's big enough to choke a donkey.

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Postby jwop2800 » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:21 am

Wd40 wrote:
AngMoG wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
AngMoG wrote:
Wd40 wrote:For employment purposes, PR = Singaporean. I dont see that changing with regards to this rule.


I wouldn't bet on that. There is no mention of PRs, I'd assume they do not get access to the national job bank. But who knows, we'll have to wait and see until they clarify.


They dont want to remove the sting from the move. If they use the word PR in the 1st release itself, then those TRE types, will just pounce on it and ignore the rest of the article.

Since they haven't specifically mentioned that PRs are excluded, its fair to assume that PR = Singaporean as was always the case for employment purposes.


Good point...


This is what I meant by what local thinks about PRs

http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/09/26/bu ... are-local/


I always wondered why were PR considered as locals too?
They were somewhat in between.
There should be another category so that the job situation would be more transparent.
Perhaps the Singapore government wanted to present a better statistics.

Everyone here should know statistics can be manipulated.
Unemployment rate of Singapore was 2%, this data should be taken with a pinch of salt.
If there were tight labour now, the market should have paid a higher salary but that did not seem to be happening.

And to reply to some forum members on job discrimination.........
I believed these things would still happened, we could only hope to minimize it through regulations or some other ways.

At the same time, i would agreed that Singapore still need foreigners to grow the economy.

Anyway, expats in this forum, did you all transfer your specialized skills and knowledge to the locals?

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Postby jwop2800 » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:24 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
jwop2800 wrote:
You are stereotyping. Not all people behave in this way.
There are people who are really good.


Sure he is. Just like Kiasuism is a stereotype and also the legendary rudeness here. Stereotypes come about, not because all are like that, but because the percentage of them here versus elsewhere is considerably higher, thereby standing out more. Sadly, I find it to be too true. Singapore's Leaders are looked favourably upon around the world, but it citizens are looked at with dread. Hotels around the world hate Singaporeans and try to nail everything down when they rent hotel rooms. The Singapore Buffet Syndrome is legendary world wide and and their rudeness is only second to those from the PRC. Yep, the people of Singapore are stereotyped, and it's not good, rather accurate and they only have themselves to blame. They go around with an entitlement complex that's big enough to choke a donkey.


Well, no one is perfect.
Every country has its own shit people and good people.
The question is do you want to look at the positive side or negative side?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 9:02 am

I've been trying to look on the positive side here for the past 31 years. There are good people here, didn't say there weren't. I'm married to one of them and just celebrated my 30 anniversary on Tuesday. But, sadly, as noted, the percentage of bad ones in certain areas is higher than in other countries, and that's why the stereotypes exist. Haven't your ever heard the old sayin' "One bad apple tends to spoil the whole barrel? Well, most countries have at least one bad apple, whereas Singapore, in certain things as two or three bad apples, thereby making it much more noticeable. Hence the stereotype where all get tarred with the same brush. How many other countries have had to have courtesy campaigns for 35 straight years with very negligible results? Says something doesn't it., when the government acknowledges the problems whilst the citizens refuse to admit they have them. Littering is another 'fine' example. Without your armies of Bangla cleaners, you all would be in sh*t up to the second floors of your HDB blocks in a matter of two months. And no, they are not foreigners who are doing it. I've been a member of our RC for 5 years and I can tell you otherwise. What have you done for your country, beside play army that is.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:50 am

jwop2800 wrote:Anyway, expats in this forum, did you all transfer your specialized skills and knowledge to the locals?



You know what, I tried but the barstool left the company and went to work for somebody else. Job hopping is a serious PITA and for no real reasons at times. The younger ones are worse these days than when we were younger but I am very wary of taking on somebody less than 40yrs old because I just have the confidence they will stick with it.

Take from you, take from the next, take from the next and in the end we all get screwed.
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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:38 pm

jwop2800 wrote:
Addadude wrote:
touchring wrote:During World War II, a fifth to a quarter of all men in Singapore were killed. Singapore had just as many foreigners then as it had today. I believe many fled and went back to their country. That didn't destroy Singapore.


My friend, this is what I call the Taxi Driver Argument. As in I've heard this comment many times from (usually older) taxi drivers. That somehow, the Ang Moh deserted Singapore in its hour of need, leaving the local populace to the not so tender mercies of the Japanese. My answer to that comment was and is always the same: "yes indeed, the 'Ang Moh' did surrender Singapore. But then who won it back?" (One rather deluded taxi driver actually insisted that it was none other than Mr. Lee Kwan Yew himself who kicked the Japs out!)

Singapore has and always will need a rather heavy foreign presence to make it economically viable. LKY himself has admitted as much and geared the entire Singapore economy around this principle. The real key to this city state's success has always been its willingness to embrace external investment and to look outward to the world for trade and talent.

Now has this led to many "foreigners" (I hate that term) taking advantage of and exploiting this situation? Undoubtedly. If you've perused this forum for any length of time, you will have come across some of these chancers been severely taken to task by regulars here.

Instead of Whining, Bitching and Moaning But Never Actually Doing Anything About It (which, if it were an Olympic sport, would have guaranteed Singapore a gold medal many times over), locals with these kind of chips on their weary shoulders should take a good long look in the mirror and stop making excuses for themselves.

Can't get laid 'cos all the Singapore chicks are swooning over FT?
Learn some social skills, brush up on what constitutes good manners and figure out how to hold a decent conversation.

Keep being passed over for promotion by FT who leave the office before you but actually get more work done?
Spend less time on Facebook, eat your breakfast BEFORE office hours begin, and work through lunch when you have to meet a deadline.

Under the thumb of your mommy and daddy but can't afford a place of your own?
Rent a flat with some friends! (Mind you, you'll probably have to learn how to iron your own clothes and make your own bed.)

And for goodness sake, stop whining about the inconvenience of NS and reservist training! 2 weeks on reservist on top of the average 2 weeks of annual leave will not have any real economic impact on a company's performance. (Sorry, but you're not THAT precious.)

In other words, get over yourself and get on with using all the advantages that a prosperous economy and good education has given you.

Who knows, if you are good enough, you might well become a highly paid FT yourself!


You are stereotyping. Not all people behave in this way.
There are people who are really good.


You want to see stereotyping? Go and read the abusive comments on TRE and other similar forums. According to many there, anyone who isn't a 'True Blue Singaporean' (an ambiguous concept in itself if you think about it) is 'trash' and should f**k off out of the country. I have to say that it's tempting to do that right now given all the nonsense that is being bandied about.

Kudos to Addadude for eloquently stating what I have been thinking for some time now. Everything not to the 'True Blue' brigade's liking is apparently either the fault of the gahmen, the foreigners, or both, but Singaporeans are supposedly perfect in every way and not responsible for what goes on in their own country. I've never come across such a concentration of puerile, blinkered, self-centered vitriol in any of the other countries I've been fortunate to live in. I think Singapore's 'formula' for success is in serious trouble and it really does feel like the country is now past its peak.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby touchring » Fri, 27 Sep 2013 1:14 pm

Addadude wrote:My friend, this is what I call the Taxi Driver Argument. As in I've heard this comment many times from (usually older) taxi drivers. That somehow, the Ang Moh deserted Singapore in its hour of need, leaving the local populace to the not so tender mercies of the Japanese. My answer to that comment was and is always the same: "yes indeed, the 'Ang Moh' did surrender Singapore. But then who won it back?" (One rather deluded taxi driver actually insisted that it was none other than Mr. Lee Kwan Yew himself who kicked the Japs out!)

Singapore has and always will need a rather heavy foreign presence to make it economically viable. LKY himself has admitted as much and geared the entire Singapore economy around this principle. The real key to this city state's success has always been its willingness to embrace external investment and to look outward to the world for trade and talent.

Now has this led to many "foreigners" (I hate that term) taking advantage of and exploiting this situation? Undoubtedly. If you've perused this forum for any length of time, you will have come across some of these chancers been severely taken to task by regulars here.



I on the rush now, so I'd only reply to your point that foreigners need Singapore.

Singapore is a trading port and a trading port has to have a foreign presence no doubt about that. This is applies to HK, which by the way, has many times much fewer foreigners than Singapore.

However, I think that obsession with money is not healthy, as Aung San Suu Kyi has pointed out. In the pursuit of money, the leaders of Singapore shouldn't neglect national identity, and to this respect I think the son has overdone it in recent years.

We are threading on dangerous grounds. In the event of an economic crisis (or housing bubble burst), or Asian Financial Crisis 2.0, no one knows how the various interest groups will react.

Any ponzi is not sustainable in the long run, and that includes population ponzi.

In my heart, I believe that this policy will not be stopped in the long run even if "moderated" for the time being.

As for the case of all ponzis, the government will need to reinflate it, and to do that the government will have no choice but bring in even more foreigners to boost the economic, this time probably from Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Central America, Ukraine, etc, pushing the population to 8 million people.

So in 20 year's time, the children of the FT today that will have become Singaporeans or PR will face the same problem and probably worst.


p/s: As for TRE brought up by Addadude, I wouldn't be bothered by TRE, most Singaporeans don't bother to read TRE or don't even know about the existence of that website.


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