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WSJ report on PRC bus driver strike, and foreigner reliance

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 2:30 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, there are exceptions. But if you pick an average chinese from even a top city like Beijing or Shanghai, I will be surprised if he/she can string an English sentence together.

If they could, they would have become a super power already with all the services outsourcing going to them instead of India and Philippines.


No, because in top cities like that they cost more money. You should really visit these places you make sweeping statements about. You would find Shanghai or Beijing, and its middle-class residents, more sophisticated than the comparable in Singapore.

I think we talked about this recently in another thread. The better educated Chinese who speak decent enough English will either A) Stay in China to make their fortune (Something you WD40 of all people should respect :P) or B) Go to the West or Australia. Singapore is seen as a second-tier destination for those who need the Mandarin-speaking safety-blanket or want to hide their dirty money. Almost none of my coworkers in China have a desire to come to Singapore. Many of them would like to go to the US though.


Seriously? Being sophisticated is one thing and being able to speak English is another.

Have a look at this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

There are more English speakers in Iraq than in China.

I guess you haven't read about the burgeoning number of graduates entering the workforce in China every year and not finding employment. No cost is not the problem.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 3:18 pm

Lynx, I thought the same thing when I finished the 2nd part. In fact, I check the date of the article to see if it was yesterday. :)

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 4:50 pm

Wd40 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, there are exceptions. But if you pick an average chinese from even a top city like Beijing or Shanghai, I will be surprised if he/she can string an English sentence together.

If they could, they would have become a super power already with all the services outsourcing going to them instead of India and Philippines.


No, because in top cities like that they cost more money. You should really visit these places you make sweeping statements about. You would find Shanghai or Beijing, and its middle-class residents, more sophisticated than the comparable in Singapore.

I think we talked about this recently in another thread. The better educated Chinese who speak decent enough English will either A) Stay in China to make their fortune (Something you WD40 of all people should respect :P) or B) Go to the West or Australia. Singapore is seen as a second-tier destination for those who need the Mandarin-speaking safety-blanket or want to hide their dirty money. Almost none of my coworkers in China have a desire to come to Singapore. Many of them would like to go to the US though.


Seriously? Being sophisticated is one thing and being able to speak English is another.

Have a look at this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

There are more English speakers in Iraq than in China.

I guess you haven't read about the burgeoning number of graduates entering the workforce in China every year and not finding employment. No cost is not the problem.


We're not talking about China, we're talking about Shanghai and Beijing (Your original criteria, not mine).

What does more english speaks in Iraq have to do with the price of tea in China? (no pun) I said the sophisticated English speakers in those cities are generally well enough employed that they have no desire to come to Singapore. Even the sophisticated non-English speakers likely don't, not that I've asked them.

Graduates entering the workforce and not finding employment is a problem everywhere.

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 5:06 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, there are exceptions. But if you pick an average chinese from even a top city like Beijing or Shanghai, I will be surprised if he/she can string an English sentence together.

If they could, they would have become a super power already with all the services outsourcing going to them instead of India and Philippines.


No, because in top cities like that they cost more money. You should really visit these places you make sweeping statements about. You would find Shanghai or Beijing, and its middle-class residents, more sophisticated than the comparable in Singapore.

I think we talked about this recently in another thread. The better educated Chinese who speak decent enough English will either A) Stay in China to make their fortune (Something you WD40 of all people should respect :P) or B) Go to the West or Australia. Singapore is seen as a second-tier destination for those who need the Mandarin-speaking safety-blanket or want to hide their dirty money. Almost none of my coworkers in China have a desire to come to Singapore. Many of them would like to go to the US though.


Seriously? Being sophisticated is one thing and being able to speak English is another.

Have a look at this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

There are more English speakers in Iraq than in China.

I guess you haven't read about the burgeoning number of graduates entering the workforce in China every year and not finding employment. No cost is not the problem.


We're not talking about China, we're talking about Shanghai and Beijing (Your original criteria, not mine).

What does more english speaks in Iraq have to do with the price of tea in China? (no pun) I said the sophisticated English speakers in those cities are generally well enough employed that they have no desire to come to Singapore. Even the sophisticated non-English speakers likely don't, not that I've asked them.

Graduates entering the workforce and not finding employment is a problem everywhere.


I said "average" person in "even" Beijing and Shanghai. Keywords highlighted.

Mi Amigo was talking about PRCs in general and I wanted to highlight that even the top cities average people in the crowd wont be able to speak in English compared to an average person from Singapore.

This has nothing to do with sophistication. If you are living in Beijing and working as a banker in a top tier bank, you can have all the luxuries of life, dont need to speak in English and wouldn't give a damn about what Singaporeans thinks about your English skills or want to ever relocate to Singapore.

Haven't you seen job ads insisting for mandarin skills to interact with clients from the mainland?

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:15 am

Part 3...
http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2013/0 ... od=WSJBlog

-A summary of Singaporeans complaints against SMRT.
-SMRT's history of exploiting the Chinese drivers unfairly (or fairly apparently, from what I recall of some of our poster's opinion)
-Details on pre-strike and Day 1 (a bit more interesting)

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:30 am

zzm9980 wrote:Part 3...
http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2013/0 ... od=WSJBlog

-A summary of Singaporeans complaints against SMRT.
-SMRT's history of exploiting the Chinese drivers unfairly (or fairly apparently, from what I recall of some of our poster's opinion)
-Details on pre-strike and Day 1 (a bit more interesting)


...and we will have to wait for Chapter 4 tomorrow!

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Chapter 4...

Postby AngMoG » Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:18 am

... is out.

http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2013/0 ... nterpunch/

Not sure how a bus driver could prove he was mistreated in police custody when there are no video recordings - which actually surprised me. I thought a place like Singapore would have such recordings.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:24 pm

AMG, I had the same feeling. Considering that the country is awash with camera everywhere, I find it strangely unsettling that interrogations are not videotaped for the protection of all concerned. Of course, what does one suspect in a country where one is presumed guilty until you prove your innocence without doubt.

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Re: WSJ report on PRC bus driver strike, and foreigner relia

Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 10:18 am


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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 10:26 am

Nothing very exciting that we didn't know.

This is what struck me though:
[quote]In a joint Dec. 1 statement, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Ministry of Manpower said the 29 drivers had “disrupted our public transport which is an essential service, and posed a threat to public order.â€Â

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Re: WSJ report on PRC bus driver strike, and foreigner relia

Postby AngMoG » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 11:50 am



That last part throws up questions in some areas, which I guess WSJ would not want to openly address in their article, but we can all read between the lines there. :P

For my part, I am a bit surprised that a $25 increase solved anything.


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