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Multiple entries as a tourist

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chyrasg
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Multiple entries as a tourist

Postby chyrasg » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:21 am

I am a Singapore citizen and had been working overseas for a long while. This year, I have finally returned back to Singapore. My life partner of 10 years will like to join me in Singapore. However, we know that it will be unlikely that he will be granted EP or LTVP to stay in Singapore under the current policy conditions. Therefore, the compromise could be for him to come to Singapore as a tourist, stay for just under 30 days, leave the country for 2 weeks or so, and then come back again with renewed 30 days.

I will really appreciate if someone can advise if they have done similar before? Also, will there be a big risk that my partner's entry may be rejected if we do this too often? What is the max. accumulated stay duration within a year or is there one? I've read in some posts of 6 months being mentioned?

Thanks so much.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 10:58 am

This subject has been discussed many times on this board; please use the search function directly above and you will find many relevant threads. Here's a recent example:

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic96246.html

Basically the answer is that your partner may get away with it a couple (or a few) times, but it is not a recommended course of action. There is no 'formula' for how many times they may get away with it, as it depends on many factors and other people's circumstances may be different. If your partner wants to be resident here then he really needs some kind of pass beyond a SVP (Social Visit Pass - the white visitor's card). Think of it this way - if he were to be flagged up as an abuser of the SVP system, this could have implications later on if he secures a job here and an Employment Pass is applied for, or if a LTVP is applied for after marriage, etc.
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Re: Multiple entries as a tourist

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:54 am

chyrasg wrote:I am a Singapore citizen and had been working overseas for a long while. This year, I have finally returned back to Singapore. My life partner of 10 years will like to join me in Singapore. However, we know that it will be unlikely that he will be granted EP or LTVP to stay in Singapore under the current policy conditions. Therefore, the compromise could be for him to come to Singapore as a tourist, stay for just under 30 days, leave the country for 2 weeks or so, and then come back again with renewed 30 days.

I will really appreciate if someone can advise if they have done similar before? Also, will there be a big risk that my partner's entry may be rejected if we do this too often? What is the max. accumulated stay duration within a year or is there one? I've read in some posts of 6 months being mentioned?

Thanks so much.


If he really wants to join you - why not marry or just do a 'ROM"?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:00 pm

I am curious if this is a normal couple or a same sex couple as the OP did not state their gender. If same sex, major hurdle especially as the OP is Singaporean. Hetero couple, get married (you have already proclaimed "life couple") This could keep you two together, while trying to subvert the system will eventually, sooner or later, separate you two for longer than you may like.

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Postby chyrasg » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 3:45 pm

All,

Thanks for your replies. Tough answers but thanks for not giving us over-optimistic expectations.

Yes we are a same-sex (male) couple. We could get married in his home country (I've got PR there as well) but with the present Singapore system, it is probably not going to help. I guess our best bet is for him to somehow secure an EP here, which will be a herculean task. Perhaps to pick up some studies / get a student pass in the meantime until a job comes along?

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 25 Aug 2013 7:35 pm

chyrasg wrote:All,

Thanks for your replies. Tough answers but thanks for not giving us over-optimistic expectations.

Yes we are a same-sex (male) couple. We could get married in his home country (I've got PR there as well) but with the present Singapore system, it is probably not going to help. I guess our best bet is for him to somehow secure an EP here, which will be a herculean task. Perhaps to pick up some studies / get a student pass in the meantime until a job comes along?


Depending on your finances, there exists schools which seem (to me at least) to just exist for the purpose of facilitating long term student passes. Perhaps he's recently realized he has a life long dream in hotel management or tourism? Or maybe he just needs to improve his English?

http://www.osac.edu.sg/

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Re: Multiple entries as a tourist

Postby Leo99 » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 3:04 pm

chyrasg wrote:I am a Singapore citizen and had been working overseas for a long while. This year, I have finally returned back to Singapore. My life partner of 10 years will like to join me in Singapore. However, we know that it will be unlikely that he will be granted EP or LTVP to stay in Singapore under the current policy conditions. Therefore, the compromise could be for him to come to Singapore as a tourist, stay for just under 30 days, leave the country for 2 weeks or so, and then come back again with renewed 30 days.

I will really appreciate if someone can advise if they have done similar before? Also, will there be a big risk that my partner's entry may be rejected if we do this too often? What is the max. accumulated stay duration within a year or is there one? I've read in some posts of 6 months being mentioned?

Thanks so much.


As to similar circumstances, recently a Korean man visited his SG GF, spending over 50% of his time in SG during a 14 month period. Whether or not he could keep doing that forever is unknown, but you could call ICA & ask them.

Is it a big risk if you do it too often, that is one month in & 2 weeks out, continually? This would mean he would not just be a tourist but be spending most of his time in SG. It would IMO be a better bet if he visited SG for like 27 days, then left for 30, and so forth.

If he were staying just across the border in Malaysia or Indonesia, you could easily visit him when you had free time, like evenings, weekends or holidays. Either country can be reached in less than an hour.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 3:24 pm

We would appreciate it if you didn't encourage behaviour that is contrary to the spirit of the ICA rules while on this board. We have a good reputation with both ICA and MOM and would like to keep it that way. In fact MOM even has several links to the main URL for this site for certain areas of expertise. I've even been invited to on the air panels and interviews with how to better MOM processes with one of the directors of MOM. So your cooperation would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Re: Multiple entries as a tourist

Postby Leo99 » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 3:59 pm

chyrasg wrote:
I will really appreciate if someone can advise if they have done similar before?



There was a gay (female) couple from the USA. See the following thread titled "Unique Relocation Situation Help!":

ftopic86350.html&highlight=visit

chyrasg wrote: Also, will there be a big risk that my partner's entry may be rejected if we do this too often?


Can you tell more about your partner, like age, employment, financial situation, country of residence, country of passport, what he'll be doing when not in SG? How good your partner's chances are will depend largely on the answers to those questions.

If, for example, your partner stays in expensive hotels while visiting SG, rather than freeloading somewhere, then i think immigration would look upon his visits much more favorably.

With repeat long visits to SG over many months, immigration is concerned that someone may be working illegally, or otherwise become a burden to you or society. If you can be a guarantor or he can prove he is financially self sufficient, then you are in a much better position.

First world passport holders are looked upon with huge favoritism. Also health can be an issue, as even temporary workers are required to be checked for HIV & TB. So having medical documents to prove one is koshur cannot hurt.

"(1) Any person, not being a citizen of Singapore, who is a member of any of the prohibited classes as defined in subsection (3) or who, in the opinion of the Controller, is a member of any of the prohibited classes, is a prohibited immigrant.

(3) The following persons are members of the prohibited classes:

a. any person who is unable to show that he has the means of supporting himself and his dependants (if any) or that he has definite employment awaiting him, or who is likely to become a pauper or a charge on the public;

b. any person suffering from mental disorder or being a mental defective, or suffering from a contagious or infectious disease which makes his presence in Singapore dangerous to the community;

c. any person suffering from Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome or infected with the Human Immunodeficiency Virus; "

"...Proof of yellow fever immunisation is required for those arriving from infected areas. If you arrive from an infected area and do not have a yellow fever vaccination certificate, you may be denied entry."

http://www.hivtravel.org/Default.aspx?P ... ntryId=158

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Aug 2013 4:44 pm

For the record, the link you have given is dated 2009. A whole lot has changed since the General Election in 2011.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 4:19 pm

Single Soul wrote:Hi. Asking this on behalf of a friend (really, not me, I'm PR :D )

He's from an Asean country and has been here on holiday - first for a month and then got a further month extension. He's enjoying the food and shopping of Singapore and wants to laze around for longer, but has to leave at the end of the month's extension for at least 5 days. Can he just go over to Malaysia for 5 days, come back and get another month (and then another extension)? Sorry if this sounds obvious but he wants to make sure :-) I imagine a lot of people do this?? Anyone with any experience?

Thanks for any feedback.


No one outside of the ICA can be sure but what he plans probably won't work.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 4:38 pm

^^This. Especially if he's from an Asian country.

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Re: Multiple entries as a tourist

Postby Leo99 » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 6:55 pm

chyrasg wrote:Therefore, the compromise could be for him to come to Singapore as a tourist, stay for just under 30 days, leave the country for 2 weeks or so, and then come back again with renewed 30 days.



There is nothing in the Singapore Immigration Act, dated 2008, saying he could not do so:

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... shed;rec=0

The ICA site says each case is judged individually & speaks about leaving for at least 5 days before returning again.

Other countries have had specific written rules forbidding what you suggest, but not Singapore. If that was something they wished to forbid, then it begs the question, why do they not simply make the rule, like others have done? Thailand, for example, had a rule a few years ago about visitors only being allowed to stay in Thailand 3 months out of every six.

Clearly SG wants to let some people in very liberally, like first world passport holders, and others of less desirable nationalities they often prefer to bar them quickly, even at their first attempt to enter the island. Therefore making an entry rule re frequency of visits that applied to everyone indiscriminately would not be in harmony with their purposes. Consequently they have written that each case is to be judged on its own merits of lack thereof:

"Note: Possession of a visa alone does not guarantee a foreigner entry into Singapore. The grant of an immigration pass to a foreign visitor is determined by the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA) officers at the point of entry at Singapore checkpoints and each case is considered on its own merits."
http://www.ica.gov.sg/services_centre_o ... pageid=252

List of less prefered countries (whose nationals require a purchased entry visa) & basic entry requirements:

http://www.visasinfo.com/singapore.html

While there are no publicly written rules re the frequency of visits to SG allowed via SVP passes, there is the following report that reveals ICA's mind on the matter:

"i've been rejected from entering singapore, for the reason too frequent for visiting sg, they said i spent my time in sg longer more than indonesia in 1 year period."
ftopic95545.html

Which implies it is not acceptable for a SVP visitor to spend more than 182 days in one year in SG, while it may be okay to spend less than 183 days (or up to 182 days) a year in the city.

"they said i stayed too long and too often coming"
ftopic80802.html

Again, though, each case is looked at individually, and first world passport holders have a much better chance of obtaining regular long visits than others. In fact others may be denied entry after a few short visits or on a first visit for no reason other than they are from a poor country & meet particular other criterion, such as being of a certain gender (female suspected prostitutes) or religion, etc, as i show below.

There are recent reports of people (US citizens) getting 90 days, skipping back & forth across the border within a day or two, & getting another 90 STVP. This possibility isn't available to people of many other countries.

Additionally, in 2011, almost 1700 Indonesians were forbidden from entering Singapore via certain crossings simply because they had particular Muslim names & or appearances that were considered high risk for terrorism:

http://keprionline.blogspot.sg/2012/02/ ... -sign.html
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012 ... hecks.html
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw02/020226at.htm

I am not aware of a single case of a first world passport holder being denied for such reasons.

Singapore turns away ship believed carrying shipwrecked Rohingya Muslims (2012):
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/12 ... -rohingya/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 83548.html

In another example, a young man from Zimbabwe (3rd world passport) was denied entry after a few short visits to see his GF in SG. OTOH a young UK (first world passport) guy reported visiting SG numerous times over 3-4 years without immigration blinking an eyelash. Likewise with the Korean mentioned earlier in this thread who was visiting his GF in SG (over 7 months in a 14 month period). Similarly with another UK resident who has visited SG for many years, many times, at least 1 month per trip.

"...I hold a Zimbabwean passport and i'm only 24. what an experience for a first timmer!"
http://terryzade.hubpages.com/hub/travelsoutheastasia

Here a Vietnamese 30 year old female is denied entry & given no specific reason for it:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g2 ... apore.html
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/460117?page=1

What ICA probably didn't want to tell her or her BF was she was suspected of being a prostitute and he her pimp. BTW almost every foreign illegal prostitute in SG comes from one of 5 poor countries: China, PI, Indonesia, Thailand & Vietnam.

In another case reported on this site, a Pakistani (developing Muslim nation) man made 4 short visits under 7 days each, then was denied:

"pply visit visa and i having a Pakistani passport. i been 4th times this year. but i only stay less then a week and go up to newzealand. i don't know why this times they rejected my application for tow times."
ftopic91509.html&highlight=visit

In another thread is mentioned the nationalities of people being deported:

"i understand usually if someone prohibited to enter, mostly female, that's what i see inside IP lounge, mostly young girls, from what i heard, 8 of them is from vietnam, 3 from china, 2 from thai, and 5 from phillipines, at the same time with me inside IP lounge waiting to deported, i assume they come for prostitute thing (maybe if i see their clothes.., but i won't judge them, that's not my bussiness), other than this, also many indian guys inside IP lounge also waiting for deported back, mostly of them cannot speak english..."

"oh yeah, and also 1 mexico guy at the same time waiting to deported back, i talk with him, and ask why, he also don't know why he will deported back, because this is his 1st time to enter sg, and have a legal visa, and didn't bring something that prohibited, evn the office didn't tell him the exact reason why he cannot enter..."

So there was not a single Westerner or person from a first world country in the bunch.

No doubt the vast majority, if not all, illegal immigrants who have decided to willfully overstay & live illegally in SG are people from poor countries, not places like Japan & the USA. Consequently it shouldn't be surprising that the former are the ones immigration officers are much more likely to be suspicious of, question, interrogate and deny entry.

"Being a small nation, Singapore can ill-afford immigrants smuggling in. Protecting its social compact is one reason, keeping crime rates low is another, but lately, with terrorists on the prowl, nothing is being left to chance."

Other reasons why a person may be refused entry on a first or subsequent visit are in sections 8 & 9 of the above linked Singapore Immigration Act. There have been no changes to those except for a small ammendment to section 8 in 2012 which makes it easier for people to enter SG. (Not surprising as the PAP plan to increase the number of tourists from a record high 22 million in 2012 to 30 million in the next few years).

The restrictions of sections 8 include individuals having a foreign criminal record or prostitution career, certain types of political activists, insufficient funds or likely to become a vagrant, etc.

Section 9 allows immigration to prohibit entire classes of people, like SE Asian Muslims with certain names or looks (suspected terrorists}, young adult females from poor nations (high risk for engaging in illegal prostitution or premeditated overstay), etc.

In addition to first world nations, Chinese males from poor countries visiting Chinese dominated SG may also recieve preferential treatment, as they are most likely not Muslim or suspected of being potential terrorists or prostitutes, as in the cases mentioned above. For examples these "Chinese from Indonesia" were given a lot of leeway by immigration:

ftopic95545.html
ftopic80802.html

"...the majority are Chinese with almost 75% of the total population (of SG)..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

To improve chances of entry, these may help:

1. can speak fluent English, rather than Singlish
2. well dressed & groomed & wearing chanel no 5
3. able to prove you are a koshur person:

"The burden of proof that any person seeking to enter Singapore is not a prohibited immigrant shall lie upon that person":

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... shed;rec=0
http://www.aseanhrmech.org/downloads/si ... gapore.pdf

4. in line with 3 above, having the appropiate financial, medical, airline, hotel, etc, documents. Such as tax returns, recent bank statements, return air ticket, travel insurance, STI results, hotel reservation papers, cash, travellers checks.

Bottom line: your SO's situation depends on a number of various factors. If he is not a first world passport holder, he is probably SOL.

Hopefully he'll be brighter than many Australians & an Italian who'd have trouble lining 3 rubber ducks in a row:

"Many Australians with less than six months validity on their passports have been refused entry into, or exit from, Singapore. If you are refused exit from Singapore..."

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/ ... /Singapore
http://www.travellerspoint.com/forum.cfm?thread=22489

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 30 Aug 2013 8:32 pm

Talk about verbal diarrhea... :roll:


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