Singapore Expats Forum

PR Application - chances?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Leafable
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PEP back to what?

Postby Leafable » Sat, 27 Jul 2013 8:34 am

Stop dreaming people. Just take what you can get now and shut it. Its a FT culling at the moment in MOM.

OP's PEP once expired with the same salary will be very fortunate to get an Q pass. OP go back to China might have a better chances mate.

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Postby Local Talent » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 1:58 am

I would think your chances are not good, too many PRCs in this country

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 10:59 am

If you are smart enough you wont wait till the very end of your PEP expiry. You would pursuade your employer to apply for the appropriate P or S pass like sometime towards the middle of next year. I dont see it being so much of a problem that SMS is making it sound. Thats just my view :)
Last edited by Wd40 on Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PEP back to what?

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:02 am

Leafable wrote:Stop dreaming people. Just take what you can get now and shut it. Its a FT culling at the moment in MOM.

OP's PEP once expired with the same salary will be very fortunate to get an Q pass. OP go back to China might have a better chances mate.


Who told you? Go to any big business hubs like Changi, CBD or Jurong and see for yourself. FT increasing or decreasing? They are just thinking of slowing down the intake, it hasn't reversed yet. :P

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Postby bloodhound123 » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 12:00 pm

Waiting till the last moment would not be a good idea any way. I dont see this downgrade to be a pricking problem for global MNCs running their shops in SG. If at all it will draw the ire of the biggies. For the SMEs employing S, Q and lower end P2s this might be a concern.

Though SMS has been raising this concern time and again, I think his is more towards SMEs employing S, Q and lower end P2s.

Given the blood letting ongoing within the biggies, this should not be a concern for them by dec 2014 as they would have already shrunk in size with the majority of them let go being a part of the expats community.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 3:09 pm

Yeah, I would imagine people with salaries below S$4500 would probably struggle, again not all of them. Some of them will get downgraded to Q1 pass or S Pass.

But then how many PEP holders are earning less than S$4500? Not many I would imagine. The bulk of the IT-subcontinental "PEP abuser" types earn in the S$5500-S$6500 range. These are unlikely to be affected. They were earlier in the middle/higher range of P2, now they will be in the lower/middle range of P2

Also to put things in perspective there are not a lot a PEP holders in Singapore

From the bird cage liner article titled "Stricter criteria for personalised work pass"

The 12,000 PEP holders represent about 7per cent of the 174,700 EP holders here.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 4:19 pm

You forget one big think W40 and that is the ever increasingly strident cry by local PMETs. And the P2 and Q pass holders fill exactly that niche. This is where the changes to dependency are also happening. They are slowly forcing these people to go home by limiting the dependents they are going to be allowed here. I reckon the next criteria change will be the 4K level S pass holders. I see that option being recinded and no dependents allowed at all on S pass just like WPs. Of course those already here on S passes will be exempt "as long as they are employed by the same company" but if they try to change employers, the new rules become effective. This and the general tightening of criteria across the board are going to put paid to a lot here. See, they are not axing across the board with immediate effect, but it will happen gradually as they continue to raise the criteria/income levels until they can no longer qualify for renewal. When that happens, they either reject the renewal, downgrade the renewal or like I got for one of my staff, a 1 year renewal with notice that after that renewal, the guy will not be renewed as he no longer meets the criteria, but the fact that he has been here for 5 years already, they are giving him a year to get sorted before he's sent packing.

Oh, SME account for 75% of all the employees in Singapore, both local and foreign. Additionally, it's only those expats in really high "C" level positions that are relative safe in their P1 passes. The odds of them gaining PR however are slim for obvious reasons.

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Postby bloodhound123 » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 6:11 pm

SMS - How would this action plan fortify the recent govt's plan to raise the population 6.9 million? Even if the population doesnt reach 6.9 owing to the ongoing protests against it, the govt might have to silently raise the population at a minimal recommended pace in order to prevent the economy from going into a vicious downward spiral.
Having a balanced demographic growth in the population would entail govt to bring in/retain FT across all the classes - S,Q,P2 and P1

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 8:03 pm

http://202.157.171.46/whitepaper/downlo ... -paper.pdf

Their plans are only geared to "6.5 to 6.9 million" with 6.9 being the upper limit and not a goal, per se. But it's a road map for ensuring the infrastructure is such so as to ensure efficiency to be able to cope with the peak loading. Also in the plans are reclamation works of another 88 sq/km of land for a total land mass of 800 sq/km. This would raise the population density to around 8500/sq km IF upper limit to Population is reached (not a given but subject to a lot of variables). For reference, New York City currently has a land mass of +/- 785 sq/km of land mass and a population of 8.2 million for a population density over 10,400/ sq/km. And Singaporean who visit the place never complain and just the converse actually, about how vibrant the city is. Nary a word about the gridlock or constant breaking down of subway and brownouts and 40 degree heat in the summertime.

However, the problem at the moment is that the PAP KNOWS it needs to keep up the foreign manpower but at the same time, they also know the public are extremely naive when it comes to voting and a freak fluke election could always happen because of the stupidity of the average local when it comes to politics. They want to vote their displeasure but they don't realize that there is no way to stop a fluke if too many do so.

So the government now find themselves between a rock & a hard place, having to mollify the people and keep the businesses from bailing out like Maersk & Evergreen did 5 or 6 years ago to Port Pelepes. The government said the same stupid thing then as well. "Let them go, they will be back in a year or so" and LKY said the same thing again when the WP won the Aljunied in the 2011 GE. They have to be seen to be doing something or they are all going to be losing their jobs. The FT are the ones who are going to bear the brunt of it in the meantime. There are going to be a lot of sacrificial lambs, I fear.

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Postby AngMoG » Mon, 29 Jul 2013 2:16 pm

Yup, it's a slow move at this point, but nonetheless I am starting to fear for next year... unfortunately I doubt I will hit the $8K to get into P1 territory. I will apply early, if I am still here by then. I am also already on the planning for Plan B, of course 8-)

Meanwhile the big companies may only have 20% or less of the total work force, but they are also important clients to many SMEs. If they go, they will take a lot of jobs with them. I can only repeat what I said before, I think that for the MNCs, there are two problems: unavailability of suitable people to employ, and the insecurity of getting visas for those people.

For the SMEs, they are already suffering, and will suffer more under these rules. I also don't understand the continuing slogan of "improving efficiency". I you run an SME with 5 employees, how can you possibly save 1 employee by becoming more efficient? Or if you are in retail or F&B, you need a certain minimum staff level with a decent attitude and minimum competency, below which you may just as well close down.


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