PR Application - chances?

[angelymj]

Hi All,

kindly give me some advice of the chance for pr application.

Age:30
Race: Chinese from PRC
Education: Degree
position：software engineer
basic salary: 5K (80K+ annual)
Pass: come to SG from Step 2009, first 2 years EP(P2) and than change to PEP.
Married on May this year, My wife is Singapore citizen(from PRC also, study and working here for more than 13 year)

wife's Age:29
Race: Chinese
Education: Poly and then private degree
position：senior staff nurse
basic salary: 3.5K+ (60K+ annual)

We just bought a 5 room HDB flat.(under my wife's name)
I have applied PR in Nov 2012 but get a rejection after 5 month.(not married at that time and basic salary is 4K).

I'm going to apply again on Step this year, Could you give me some advice of the chance for my pr application.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Probably nil. You will have a much better chance once you have been married two years. The gahment knows that you will lose your PEP eventually unless something really good happens like your salary jumping from 5K to 12K/month in order to keep the PEP after Dec 2014. Odds are you may have to go back to a P2 pass (if you are lucky) until you have been married two years.

However, if you can stand the rejection, nothing stopping you from trying again.

[bloodhound123]

Odds are you may have to go back to a P2 pass (if you are lucky)

Why is it going to be hard to go back to P1/P2 pass from PEP? Do companies have strict quotas for P1 and P2 passes as well?

[sundaymorningstaple]

As you know, the minimum criteria for the PEP is changing rapidly. The minimum criteria for the various passes will increase in tandem. You have no idea what the minimum criteria for the P2 pass will be at the time you try to "requalify" for it. If the P1 goes up to equal the new PEP from 8K to 12k then you can be sure it is going to drag all the other pass minimums up with it.

[bloodhound123]

If all the other passes are going to tag along with PEP in such a short period of time it would be cause a good percentage of the expats to move out of SG. Don't that there are enough citizens and PRs to fill that void and businesses would be quick to shift operations out of here ASAP. Any kind of a shock is in general detrimental to the economy which the macro economists would have realized. My guess is that this would happen albeit a little more slowly ( something spread over 3-5 years).
In the recent past only PEP requirements underwent a sea change, but the other passes did not undergo that impactful a change.

Let me know your thoughts/anticipations on this view.

[bloodhound123]

If the P1 goes up to equal the new PEP from 8K to 12

If this happens there shouldn't be a need for a category called P1 pass. Anyone who meets P1 criteria would also meet PEP criteria and MOM would have to phase out either of them. P1 being in [8000,12000) range sounds more logical.
If P1 criteria is bumped up to 11,999 then a guy making 11,999.5 would qualify for P1 but not PEP.

[sundaymorningstaple]

When the PEP was first introduced 5.5 years ago, the criteria for the PEP WAS the same as the criteria for the P1. In fact, initially, when you were granted the P1 EP they used to send you a letter inviting you to apply for the PEP. At the time it was supposed to be for those who the gahment wanted to give a little freedom to move about and potentially become PR's and later possibly citizens if all worked out.

Unfortunately, a large number of expats took up the visa for no other reason than having a 5 years visa "just in case" they lost their present position to a local and would otherwise have to leave the country before they wanted to. Well, it didn't take long for MOM to see the ruse behind that and thanks to the abusers we now have PEP shortened to three years and astronomical entry fees.

There is one other thing you all are missing in the equation. The fact that the MOM is going to be using the EP salary criteria to help drive up the wage base of local, instead of keeping them depressed as they currently claim. If the S pass is eventually pushed up to, say, 3500/mo with a levy of around 600 a month. Then it will pull up the locals wages as well as reduce the number of foreigners. Will it work? That's anybody's guess.

[Wd40]

If the P1 goes up to equal the new PEP from 8K to 12

If this happens there shouldn't be a need for a category called P1 pass. Anyone who meets P1 criteria would also meet PEP criteria and MOM would have to phase out either of them. P1 being in [8000,12000) range sounds more logical.
If P1 criteria is bumped up to 11,999 then a guy making 11,999.5 would qualify for P1 but not PEP.

You seem to be new to Singapore. In the past 7K was the minimum for P1 and PEP as well. A person with P1 pass could apply for PEP right away, after stepping into Singapore.

P1 is still needed, take note that PEP is just a 3 year thing. After that you need P1.

[bloodhound123]

SMS - I got the rationale behind the PEP rule 5.5 years back. But if that is the case it sounds like a trap/loophole which MOM created then. If P1 criteria = PEP criteria, every P1 holder would naturally have opted to go for the PEP as it gives them a breathing space of 6 months in case they are out of job.

I would NOT see this as an abuse by P1 holders as MOM sort of enthused them into doing do. As for the P2, Q and S Pass holders the so called "abuse" is something that can be debated. Isnt it natural from a social evolutionary stance to guard yourself against something if there is a way to do so ? dont think ppl would have anticipated such a drastic change in the PEP criteria which puts all of them at risk now. And I dont think ppl who have spent 3-4 years in SG would have predicted this sinusoidal dive from the government.

The reason for the minimum criteria across all the classes for work passes to increase the minimum wages for Singaporeans is very evident and MOM itself mentioned this in one of their press releases. Whether it will work or not should have been assessed from a macro economic point of view. If the SME do not have the business potential in SG to disburse such pay levels, boost productivity and create new markets for their goods and services, then it is an END game.

Wd40 - I am not new to Singapore ...have been here for quite sometime now. Its just that I didnt delve into the finer details of WP rules and criteria.
After your PEP expires why should you go back to P1. Apply for a new PEP, pay for it and get it. Wasnt that the case? Is PEP a one time affair?

[Mi Amigo]

Is PEP a one time affair?

Yes.

[haiz,soSad.]

Hi all, what document we need to submit except for those listed? I read from some forum,which state that we should include our latest resume, cv, recommended letter from current/previous employer. In the cv is about the reason we apply for pr. Else some forum suggested only submit those documents required. So should we submit extra document like this? Thanks

[sundaymorningstaple]

Is PEP a one time affair?

Yes.

And furthermore, now the PEP has been reduced from 5 years to 3 years in addition to bumping the qualifying salary criteria by 50% to 12K/mo if currently in Singapore and 18K if not.

And the new 144K/year minimum is going to whack most of those P2's who got it based on length of time here on P2. Big shake out coming.

[Mi Amigo]

Hi all, what document we need to submit except for those listed? I read from some forum,which state that we should include our latest resume, cv, recommended letter from current/previous employer. In the cv is about the reason we apply for pr. Else some forum suggested only submit those documents required. So should we submit extra document like this? Thanks

There are differing schools of thought on this subject; if you use the search function above, you'll see that it has been discussed in various threads in the past. E.g. here are a couple where the topic has come up:

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic94016.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic88250.html

[bloodhound123]

And the new 144K/year minimum is going to whack most of those P2's who got it based on length of time here on P2. Big shake out coming.

I was on a P1 and I took a PEP not for abusing it or for gaming the system. I realized that the 1 month grace period if kicked out of a job was too less to find any reasonable employment in singapore. It takes at least 3-5 months to find a good job if your current employer kicks you out.

What will the employers with all those P2s and P1s do if they just get kicked out next year by dec 2014? Will they be able to find Singaporean/PR replacements that quickly. If not they have no option but to relocate elsewhere. Singapore is going to get screwed bg time if this what MOM plans to do.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Only time will tell.