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going on visiting pass (90 days) and looking for a job ?

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econstudent
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going on visiting pass (90 days) and looking for a job ?

Postby econstudent » Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:25 am

Hello,

I am a recent university graduate from the US, trying to determine if it is legal (and not entirely morally reprehensible) to, say, go for a 90 day "visit" with an onward ticket to Kuala Lumpur to explore job opportunities and then apply for EP if I get any offers.

The reason for doing this, is to be available for interviews and avoid sending resumes into the void of companies'/recruiters' websites.

If there is nothing wrong with this, how practical is this going to be in terms of securing residence (a room or something cheap,) and banking?

Thank all.
Last edited by econstudent on Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby AngMoG » Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:49 am

From an immigration (ICA) perspective, there is nothing wrong with this, in fact it is what quite a few people are doing I think. Though if I remember correctly, you would only get a 30-day visa on arrival. You can apply for 90-day SVPs or similar, not too sure, check ICA website

You should be able to find a room for short-term rental if you can get a 90-day visa, probably upwards of $1000 per month rental. Note that Singapore is expensive, and the networking you should do will add to that, as booze is especially pricey. So I would safely assume that you would likely spend another $1500 - $2000 per month at least on top of the rental.

If your visa is 30 days only, I am not too sure what your options are outside hotel/serviced apartment.

While here temporarily, you will probably not be able to open a bank account, nor will it make sense for you to do so. If you are able to secure a position AND an EP/S-Pass, THEN you should look into longer-term rental and opening bank account as soon as possible (after IPA letter and medical check-up are completed).

Note that due to the recent adjustments in immigration policy, finding a job without a visa can be quite difficult, and there is no guarantee that once you secure a job, you will get a visa.

It would be good to share with us your industry, functional area, experience, education, ethnicity, country of residence, expected salary. Then there can maybe be more targeted advice, including whether it is worth it at all to come here.

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Postby econstudent » Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:17 pm

AngMoG wrote:From an immigration (ICA) perspective, there is nothing wrong with this, in fact it is what quite a few people are doing I think. Though if I remember correctly, you would only get a 30-day visa on arrival. You can apply for 90-day SVPs or similar, not too sure, check ICA website

You should be able to find a room for short-term rental if you can get a 90-day visa, probably upwards of $1000 per month rental. Note that Singapore is expensive, and the networking you should do will add to that, as booze is especially pricey. So I would safely assume that you would likely spend another $1500 - $2000 per month at least on top of the rental.

If your visa is 30 days only, I am not too sure what your options are outside hotel/serviced apartment.

While here temporarily, you will probably not be able to open a bank account, nor will it make sense for you to do so. If you are able to secure a position AND an EP/S-Pass, THEN you should look into longer-term rental and opening bank account as soon as possible (after IPA letter and medical check-up are completed).

Note that due to the recent adjustments in immigration policy, finding a job without a visa can be quite difficult, and there is no guarantee that once you secure a job, you will get a visa.

It would be good to share with us your industry, functional area, experience, education, ethnicity, country of residence, expected salary. Then there can maybe be more targeted advice, including whether it is worth it at all to come here.



Thank you. That's very useful.

I got the 90 day quote from the State department's site fyi.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _1017.html

Scanning MOM's and ICA's site, it does seem like restrictions circa 2011 have made it more difficult for lower income brackets to secure any kinds of passes/visas, which is what you said.

Still, I am pretty set on the transition as I have little assets in the States at the moment and my salary expectations would probably be just a minor margin over what it takes to secure EP i.e., I will be going for experience, which I lack.

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Postby econstudent » Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:54 pm

Also, I've read mixed responses on whether one should buy an "onward" ticket or not, in order to corroborate the "visitor" status. It sounds kind of ridiculous to me, but I do not wish to disrespect any customs or break any laws.

So, hypothetically, If I buy an onward ticket to Malaysia, which I don't mind, could I fly back in to Singapore within 1-2 business days and begin my visitor status anew in Singapore? Would I need to work doubly hard to convince ICA that I am, in fact, "visiting" again?

Thanks.

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 15 Jul 2013 1:28 pm

econstudent wrote:Also, I've read mixed responses on whether one should buy an "onward" ticket or not, in order to corroborate the "visitor" status. It sounds kind of ridiculous to me, but I do not wish to disrespect any customs or break any laws.

So, hypothetically, If I buy an onward ticket to Malaysia, which I don't mind, could I fly back in to Singapore within 1-2 business days and begin my visitor status anew in Singapore? Would I need to work doubly hard to convince ICA that I am, in fact, "visiting" again?

Thanks.


Technically, return within 2 days is a bit short, though, based on your passport, you may not be asked too many questions !!!

Then again, upon return ICA may ask you to show a return ticket back to your country of origin.

Tough answer, there is no fixed rule..

Safe option, have return ticket back to home, when you come back from MY

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Postby Leo99 » Mon, 22 Jul 2013 9:00 pm

ecureilx wrote:Technically, return within 2 days is a bit short, though, based on your passport, you may not be asked too many questions !!!



Isn't it for 5 days that one has to leave Singapore & not return? In the case of getting a 30 day social pass plus another 30 days extension?

Could someone almost live continuously in Singapore on such a basis? Two months in, 5 days out, another 2 months in, etc.

Presently i'm on my virgin trip into Singapore with a US passport & 90 day social visit pass. Could i thereafter go to Thailand for a month or two, then return to Singapore & get another 90 days, then repeat the process indefinitely, as a retired non working individual? Or similarly split my time each year 50-50 between LOS & SG, thereby avoiding income taxes in both?

Do US passport holders get special advantages, like 90 day passes, while other nationalities are limited to 30 days or less upon entering SG?

A "return ticket back home"? What if i have no "home", consider myself a free man, a wanderer, an expat or a citizen of earth?

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:12 pm

Leo99 wrote:Isn't it for 5 days that one has to leave Singapore & not return? In the case of getting a 30 day social pass plus another 30 days extension?

Well there is no hard and fast rule written down anywhere (at least not in the public domain) about this. 5 days is a minimum that people often quote, but the results can vary depending on many factors (nationality of the person doing it, how many times they've done it in the past, etc.).

Leo99 wrote:Could someone almost live continuously in Singapore on such a basis? Two months in, 5 days out, another 2 months in, etc.

Nope. Not without a valid residency visa / employment pass of some kind. The immigration folks here are pretty smart, and they have sophisticated, integrated computer systems to back them up. So they would cotton onto these kinds of ruses pretty quickly.

Leo99 wrote:Presently i'm on my virgin trip into Singapore with a US passport & 90 day social visit pass. Could i thereafter go to Thailand for a month or two, then return to Singapore & get another 90 days, then repeat the process indefinitely, as a retired non working individual?

I expect you'd probably get away with it the first one or two times, but I would think it unlikely that you could do that indefinitely; I certainly wouldn't want to risk relying on that.

Leo99 wrote:Or similarly split my time each year 50-50 between LOS & SG, thereby avoiding income taxes in both?

You might have more success with that approach, but you may still end up getting more and more awkward questions after a few trips. As to the tax situation for such a scenario, that's a whole 'nother discussion (it's been discussed elsewhere on the board in detail in the past, so I'd use the search function above to seek out the relevant threads).

Leo99 wrote:Do US passport holders get special advantages, like 90 day passes, while other nationalities are limited to 30 days or less upon entering SG?

Yes, generally citizens of the USA, UK and some other nations can get 90 day SVPs. But it's not guaranteed. Some people ask for them if they are about to be given a 30 day SVP - do a search of this board and you'll find various threads with other peoples' experiences in this area. However if you were to try to do a number of short 'visa runs' to other countries, you'd be very unlikely to keep getting 90 days - there have been cases where people have over-stepped the mark and have just been given a day or two to collect their belongings and get the hell out of Dodge.

Leo99 wrote:A "return ticket back home"? What if i have no "home", consider myself a free man, a wanderer, an expat or a citizen of earth?

Well generally it would be considered a return ticket to the place from whence you came. If it were me I would do that (and make it changeable / refundable if need be to allow for changing circumstances).
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 23 Jul 2013 9:31 am

Mi Amigo wrote:Well there is no hard and fast rule written down anywhere (at least not in the public domain) about this. 5 days is a minimum that people often quote, but the results can vary depending on many factors (nationality of the person doing it, how many times they've done it in the past, etc.).


yeah, technically it is not written down per-se, but when you seek online extension for upto 90 days, a confirmation that goes on like "I will not seek any further extension .. followed by something like "you should leave the country for 5 days .. " appears at the ICA site ..

Simple to extrapolate right ?

And that I know people who went for extension were explicitly told they will not get another extension or entry visa, unless they go back to their country of origin. Yes, that also is not written down but .. good luck if your stars are shining pretty bright :)

years ago, when I was between jobs, I was here on 60 months SVP, every month I head to JB stay one night and come back and I didn't have any issue, nor did I have any flight ticket with me .. it worked.

Then another ASEAN friend did the same, on his first stepping back from JB, he was given 3 Days SVP ..

Unless you have a pressing reason to push your luck, me says don't ..

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Postby Leo99 » Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:39 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
You might have more success with that approach, but you may still end up getting more and more awkward questions after a few trips. As to the tax situation for such a scenario, that's a whole 'nother discussion (it's been discussed elsewhere on the board in detail in the past, so I'd use the search function above to seek out the relevant threads).



I was thinking of 2 months in and then 2 months out, continuously, forever. Or 3 in, 3 out, may work better, as i've never heard of a 60 day SV pass being issued on arrival at the airport, only 90 or 30 days, etc. I'd even consider a 1 month in & 1 month out plan, though not keen on all the extra packing, flying, etc, that would involve. Alternately how about limiting visits to Singapore to 3 months a year, with the other 9 months split between Thailand & Malaysia? I suppose that would be more likely to stay under the SG immigrations' radar than trying to spend 6 months a year in Lion City.

What kind of questions would these "awkward" ones be? I can only tell the truth, that i'm retired, prefer living in Asia to anywhere else, & sadly need to get out of Siam for 6 months plus a year to avoid paying extra income taxes there. And from my research of all the other choices in Asia, Singapore was numero uno. After having been here for a few weeks, BTW, i am pleasantly surprised, as it is even better than i had expected.

Anything else they'd like to know? What i watched on HBO last night? If i like the food & shopping in Geylang? How my sex life is? Do i ever jaywalk, chew bubble gum or both at the same time?

Can i prove i'm not working in the city/state? That i have health insurance? Sufficient funds? An outgoing ticket? No questions or any word at all was said to me on my maiden voyage into SG. Just a ninety day stamp, as per the number of days i indicated on the entry form. Easy peasy.

What exactly is it they are interested in or worried about? If they don't want retired folks visiting their country bringing tons of money in, spending it in SG, filling up their hotels, they can just ban them & we'll be happy to go & spend it elsewhere. BTW didn't they recently annul a LSVP for people over 45?


Mi Amigo wrote:
Well generally it would be considered a return ticket to the place from whence you came. If it were me I would do that (and make it changeable / refundable if need be to allow for changing circumstances).


So next time i come to Singapore, how about if i write on the entry card my home address is in Thailand instead of, say, the USA or UK? Problem solved? I've spent half my time there anyway for years, so LOS has been a home lately. I doubt that i'd return all the way to Europe just so i can visit Singapore again, as nice as it is. So the best plan re visiting SG may be one that decreases the risk of SG immigration requiring a return to "home" in the Western world.

ecureilx wrote:
yeah, technically it is not written down per-se, but when you seek online extension for upto 90 days, a confirmation that goes on like "I will not seek any further extension .. followed by something like "you should leave the country for 5 days .. " appears at the ICA site ..

Simple to extrapolate right ?


That's what the official Singapore immigration website seems to suggest:

"You will not return to Singapore within 5 days from the departure date of your current trip"

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=180

Namely that after a 90 day social visit it's ok to return again to SG 6 or more days later.

Not that a return in 6 days interests me personally, but i am trying to figure out if i should attempt a return again for 60 days, after a 30 day absence in BKK, or wait it out longer. The 60 days would make it 5 months out of the previous 6 in SG. Do you think maybe immigration would only give me a 30 day instead of 90 day stamp on the 2nd trip in? I'd write on the entry form an intention to stay for 60 days.



ecureilx wrote:
And that I know people who went for extension were explicitly told they will not get another extension or entry visa, unless they go back to their country of origin. Yes, that also is not written down but .. good luck if your stars are shining pretty bright


Country of origin? Where you were born? Your passport country? Where you've been living or working? That could be 3 or more different countries.



ecureilx wrote:
years ago, when I was between jobs, I was here on 60 months SVP, every month I head to JB stay one night and come back and I didn't have any issue, nor did I have any flight ticket with me .. it worked.

Then another ASEAN friend did the same, on his first stepping back from JB, he was given 3 Days SVP ..



The immigration must have enjoyed your scent. Chanel No.5?

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Postby econstudent » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 5:50 am

Leo99 wrote:
No questions or any word at all was said to me on my maiden voyage into SG. Just a ninety day stamp, as per the number of days i indicated on the entry form. Easy peasy.




Did you declare cash or in any way reveal your finances before they made the decision of 90 vs 30 day pass? Did you reveal that you were retired?

Thanks for continuing the thread.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 6:59 am

Tell you what, Leo99, just do what you want. When it turns to brown stuff, let us know. We can always use the anecdotal evidence for the next one who knows everything.

I did the month in month out thing for 11 years but that was 30 years ago. They kind of clamped down on that somewhat back in the '90's. If you were working in the offshore oilfields you could get away with it. Most other couldn't. Good luck.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 7:40 am

You can do this. For accomodation there are lots of quite good backpacker hostels in the little india area (Dunlop St).

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Postby econstudent » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 8:09 am

Just to selfishly steer this thread back to my case: it sounds to me like buying a "return" ticket to Malaysia is unnecessary and/or implausible in my case. Is this a correct extrapolation?

It sounds like buying a 30 day onward to ticket to Malaysia may prematurely condemn me to a 30 day visitor's pass, rather than the 90 day that I need.

P.S. The point of this is to afford enough time to secure EP, not to avoid [presumably] double taxation as in Leo99's case.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 8:18 am

econstudent wrote:Just to selfishly steer this thread back to my case: it sounds to me like buying a "return" ticket to Malaysia is unnecessary and/or implausible in my case. Is this a correct extrapolation?

It sounds like buying a 30 day onward to ticket to Malaysia may prematurely condemn me to a 30 day visitor's pass, rather than the 90 day that I need.

P.S. The point of this is to afford enough time to secure EP, not to avoid [presumably] double taxation as in Leo99's case.


I'd come to Singapore on a return US ticket... then buy a return ticket (bus/coach is cheapest) for my trip to MY. You're over thinking this.

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Postby econstudent » Wed, 24 Jul 2013 8:34 am

PNGMK wrote:
econstudent wrote:Just to selfishly steer this thread back to my case: it sounds to me like buying a "return" ticket to Malaysia is unnecessary and/or implausible in my case. Is this a correct extrapolation?

It sounds like buying a 30 day onward to ticket to Malaysia may prematurely condemn me to a 30 day visitor's pass, rather than the 90 day that I need.

P.S. The point of this is to afford enough time to secure EP, not to avoid [presumably] double taxation as in Leo99's case.


I'd come to Singapore on a return US ticket... then buy a return ticket (bus/coach is cheapest) for my trip to MY. You're over thinking this.


Yeah but if they let Leo99 in for 90 days, it wasn't b/c of his return ticket to the states. On what grounds did they let him have the 90 day pass?


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