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Working for anyone not on your Employment Pass

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danielb
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Working for anyone not on your Employment Pass

Postby danielb » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 6:53 pm

Guys,

Can it ever be legal to do work for an company not on your Employment Pass? I do not have a PEP under which you can work for whoever. I understand that there may be a difference between a contract of service and a contract for service, and also if you are paid from a foreign bank account to your own (foreign) bank account. This is not about sneaking around, this is about what could actually be legal.

Thanks.
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kooltilldend
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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 6:58 pm

In short, no

The ep is there for a reason and is sponsored by the corporation hiring the employee

If you, as a foreigner, are working for a company without an ep (or for someone who didn't sponsor your ep) then that is strictly illegal

danielb
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Postby danielb » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:00 pm

kooltilldend wrote:In short, no

The ep is there for a reason and is sponsored by the corporation hiring the employee

If you, as a foreigner, are working for a company without an ep (or for someone who didn't sponsor your ep) then that is strictly illegal


That's pretty much what I thought. Now what about working for some non-Singaporean entity? How permissible is that?
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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:01 pm

The closest to "working" legally is to take contractual work online (such as filling surveys or possibly even freelance work - although am not sure if the latter is legally allowed for ep holders)

You have to realize though that the corporation sponsoring the ep actually is paying a levy (which goes back to the government) for hiring you therefore, if you are working for somebody who isn't sponsoring that ep, then essentially you are "cheating" the government

And that never ends well

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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:03 pm

danielb wrote:
kooltilldend wrote:In short, no

The ep is there for a reason and is sponsored by the corporation hiring the employee

If you, as a foreigner, are working for a company without an ep (or for someone who didn't sponsor your ep) then that is strictly illegal


That's pretty much what I thought. Now what about working for some non-Singaporean entity? How permissible is that?


Its irrelevant whether its a local or foreign entity. You cannot legally work for any of them (while in SG) until they sponsor your ep.

I know of companies that ask you to start work "early" even when your ep application hasn't been approved - that too is illegal

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Postby danielb » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:05 pm

It's just kinda frustrating what with the reputation this nation has with being so free market. Protectionism is alive and well here!!
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Postby danielb » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:08 pm

kooltilldend wrote: Its irrelevant whether its a local or foreign entity. You cannot legally work for any of them (while in SG) until they sponsor your ep.

I know of companies that ask you to start work "early" even when your ep application hasn't been approved - that too is illegal


Do you have an official source on this?
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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:21 pm

danielb wrote:
kooltilldend wrote: Its irrelevant whether its a local or foreign entity. You cannot legally work for any of them (while in SG) until they sponsor your ep.

I know of companies that ask you to start work "early" even when your ep application hasn't been approved - that too is illegal


Do you have an official source on this?


Official source on what? That you can't work for a separate entity which hasn't sponsored your ep?

Do you really need a source for this? It speaks for itself

As for the part about companies asking you to start before sponsoring your ep...yes its illegal...I've had company's in the past ask me to do the same - I refused.

Doing so (and getting caught) will hurt you about 100x more than the company who does it - its your ep remember - not the company's

p.s. the so-called free market is long gone...there's no freedom here anymore

Oh and don't get me wrong...I do understand your frustration, I'm going through a similar phrase...but it is what it is...nothing you or me can do about it

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 9:14 am

danielb wrote:
kooltilldend wrote: Its irrelevant whether its a local or foreign entity. You cannot legally work for any of them (while in SG) until they sponsor your ep.

I know of companies that ask you to start work "early" even when your ep application hasn't been approved - that too is illegal


Do you have an official source on this?


Of course! Straight from the horse's mouth!

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/services-forms/passes/WPSPassConditions.pdf

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 9:39 am

the lynx wrote:
danielb wrote:
kooltilldend wrote: Its irrelevant whether its a local or foreign entity. You cannot legally work for any of them (while in SG) until they sponsor your ep.

I know of companies that ask you to start work "early" even when your ep application hasn't been approved - that too is illegal


Do you have an official source on this?


Of course! Straight from the horse's mouth!

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/services-forms/passes/WPSPassConditions.pdf


I read that whole document last night, trying to answer danielb's query. Unless I missed it, it isn't actually spelled out in the Act when it comes to EP holders. It is very clearly spelled out in the Schedules for Work Permit holders and S pass holders.

However, take if from an HR Manager, if danielb want's a quick trip out of the country on a permanent basis, all he has to do is get caught working for a company for which his Employment Pass is not issued for. If the general rules say your employer must apply for an employment pass, and you work for an employer without one, then you are in violation of the law, pure and simple. You will be deported in all likelihood and banned from working in Singapore in the future. Bit of a gamble for a few extra bob/month I'd say.

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Postby nutnut » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 12:49 pm

Get a PEP, then you can work for as many companies as you like as your current company gives consent.

I agree with the others though, as the EP is tied to one employer, they are responsible for you in this country and you must only work for them.
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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 3:15 pm

nutnut wrote:Get a PEP, then you can work for as many companies as you like as your current company gives consent.
I agree with the others though, as the EP is tied to one employer, they are responsible for you in this country and you must only work for them.


Where did you get that information from? AFAIK, you can work for only 1 company even on a PEP.

How do I know? There is rule that you need to inform MoM whenever you change companies or your employment status changes. So by that logic, you need to inform MoM when you take your 2nd concurrent job? Inform MoM and see what happens ;)

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Postby kooltilldend » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 3:38 pm

If you are a foreigner (ie not living in the country where your passport is from) forget about having 2 full-time jobs simultaneously

As far as I know, you will be in violation of the law no matter which country you are living in (and Singapore's no exception to that)

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 9:43 pm

Wd40 wrote:
nutnut wrote:Get a PEP, then you can work for as many companies as you like as your current company gives consent.
I agree with the others though, as the EP is tied to one employer, they are responsible for you in this country and you must only work for them.


Where did you get that information from? AFAIK, you can work for only 1 company even on a PEP.

How do I know? There is rule that you need to inform MoM whenever you change companies or your employment status changes. So by that logic, you need to inform MoM when you take your 2nd concurrent job? Inform MoM and see what happens ;)


I don't know where the threads are but at least two PEP holders posted on this board that they had asked MOM for permission to take a second job, and with the assent of their current company, were allowed to do so.

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Postby katbh » Wed, 10 Jul 2013 6:52 am

And just to clarify....an employer does not pay a levy for an EP. A monthly levy is only paid on a WP. There are no ongoing fees or levies for an EP beyond the initial, quite reasonable, fee for the issuance of the EP.
And...it also depends on the type of work for the second job. There have been arguments (discussions) elsewhere on this site about whether telecommuting while being paid to a foreign bank account, is taxable here, and if not, does it require an EP to do so. Leave you to do the search.


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