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Singapore EP rejected..what to do next

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby bro75 » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 11:44 am

Based on your info, you should qualify for an spass but your company might not have the quota to be able to apply for an spass. Your company may have no choice but to increase your salary to qualify for a Q1 epass.

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Postby josebhai » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 1:52 pm

bro75 wrote:Based on your info, you should qualify for an spass but your company might not have the quota to be able to apply for an spass. Your company may have no choice but to increase your salary to qualify for a Q1 epass.


My salary is currently 3750..how much should be the hike to qualify for Q1 pass ?

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Postby josebhai » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 1:54 pm

bro75 wrote:Based on your info, you should qualify for an spass but your company might not have the quota to be able to apply for an spass. Your company may have no choice but to increase your salary to qualify for a Q1 epass.


My salary is currently 3750..how much should be the hike to qualify for Q1 pass ?

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Postby bro75 » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 2:23 pm

josebhai wrote:
bro75 wrote:Based on your info, you should qualify for an spass but your company might not have the quota to be able to apply for an spass. Your company may have no choice but to increase your salary to qualify for a Q1 epass.


My salary is currently 3750..how much should be the hike to qualify for Q1 pass ?


The results of the SAT tool from your first post shows that you could be given a Q1 pass at 4100 salary. That could be it but there is no guarantee.

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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 3:36 pm

AngMoG wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
AngMoG wrote:Should have ticked the "S Pass if EP is rejected" field (or sth like that).

But it is worrying that the practice now is a very opaque set of criteria, which effectively puts the minimum salary around 3.5-4K. If they want a minimum salary of $4K for EP, why don't they just say so?


If it does that, it allows bot the employee and the employer to game the system. I know too many that have. They want as much opacity as possible in order to tweak the system overnight if they have to. They will continue to do this until the get the local SMEs to start hiring locals over the preferred foreigners (not necessarily cheaper but usually a lot more productive than the local who thinks his position isn't a job but an entitlement.).


Opaque rules are rarely good for anyone, in my experience. With clear rules, at least one knows what's expected, and can plan accordingly. With opaque rules, it's trial and error, which when we are talking about hiring, can delay the process for months.

Even being a foreigner, I think if they want to "level the playing field", they need to have foreigners cost as much as, or slightly more than, locals. I.e., if you hire a local, as a company you pay salary + 15% CPF (I think it was at 15% at least). For a PR, the CPF is capped. For a foreigner on EP/S-Pass, it's salary only + a small levy; why not instead make the levy at the same 15%, or even at 20%, or salary? And maybe add min quotas for SCs? That would make it transparent, but of course it would also increase cost of business significantly. Obviously, it would not remove the "sense of entitlement" problem per se.

Of course, there may be some fear that if they really make some hard rules like that, it will drive many businesses away. I say, they are already driving business away anyway, and having clear but painful rules would be a way of doing damage control.


Isn't there a minimum SC quota already? Atleast in terms of hiring foreigners

My previous employer told me that he needs to hire 2 locals (pr/citizen) to hire 1 ep.

And soon enough it'll be 3 locals to hire 1 ep (and he's an ep holder himself!)

I have no idea how expat startups can ever survive with these regulations!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 5:38 pm

Many do. But these are major players as that is what the country is looking for. They don't need any more mom & pop shops. Far too many already.

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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 5:41 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Many do. But these are major players as that is what the country is looking for. They don't need any more mom & pop shops. Far too many already.


Many do ofcourse and more will continue in the future - its the only way any country can sustain

But even then, its outrageously tough (and getting harder) for these startups to get anyone to hire - its one of the prime reasons I got my last job as the startup couldn't locate any local to hire despite searching for months

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Postby AngMoG » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:06 pm

kooltilldend wrote:
Isn't there a minimum SC quota already? Atleast in terms of hiring foreigners

My previous employer told me that he needs to hire 2 locals (pr/citizen) to hire 1 ep.

And soon enough it'll be 3 locals to hire 1 ep (and he's an ep holder himself!)

I have no idea how expat startups can ever survive with these regulations!


There is a minimum quota for S-Pass and below. EP are not under quota in theory; in practice however, EPs are often not granted when the MOM thinks there are "too many foreigners" or "too few SCs" working at a company, or for whatever reasons the MOM has and don't tell you ;)

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Postby kooltilldend » Mon, 08 Jul 2013 7:25 pm

AngMoG wrote:There is a minimum quota for S-Pass and below. EP are not under quota in theory; in practice however, EPs are often not granted when the MOM thinks there are "too many foreigners" or "too few SCs" working at a company, or for whatever reasons the MOM has and don't tell you ;)


S-pass there's a crystal clear quota I guess but afaik ep's aren't exactly quota-free either...they never make it clear but the ratio ends up being close to that I presume

Just another set of opaque rules I suppose

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 9:04 am

kooltilldend wrote:
AngMoG wrote:There is a minimum quota for S-Pass and below. EP are not under quota in theory; in practice however, EPs are often not granted when the MOM thinks there are "too many foreigners" or "too few SCs" working at a company, or for whatever reasons the MOM has and don't tell you ;)


S-pass there's a crystal clear quota I guess but afaik ep's aren't exactly quota-free either...they never make it clear but the ratio ends up being close to that I presume

Just another set of opaque rules I suppose


The opaque rules is kept in place for a few reasons, I presume, including monitoring capital / turnover of the company.

For example, If a 2$ company applies for EP with 500K turnover, where they don't have to do proper audit per se, the chance are low.

if a 2$ company with 900K turnover, but still do proper audit etc, they have better chance ..

And if a company with a 1 million paid up capital, but turnover of less than 100K applies for EP ..

See? MOM wants to keep their option of filtering, not making the employer tailor the requirement .. I know that, I used to work for 4 SMEs before.

When one of the employer had to add a foreign manpower, he added x amount to paid up capital, added 3 locals as staff, and applied, as he was confident he will get the additional head count .. too bad it didn't work, as the requirements were "OPAQUE" as you say ..

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Postby kooltilldend » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 3:35 pm

ecureilx wrote:The opaque rules is kept in place for a few reasons, I presume, including monitoring capital / turnover of the company.

For example, If a 2$ company applies for EP with 500K turnover, where they don't have to do proper audit per se, the chance are low.

if a 2$ company with 900K turnover, but still do proper audit etc, they have better chance ..

And if a company with a 1 million paid up capital, but turnover of less than 100K applies for EP ..

See? MOM wants to keep their option of filtering, not making the employer tailor the requirement .. I know that, I used to work for 4 SMEs before.

When one of the employer had to add a foreign manpower, he added x amount to paid up capital, added 3 locals as staff, and applied, as he was confident he will get the additional head count .. too bad it didn't work, as the requirements were "OPAQUE" as you say ..


How is this helping the company though when they have no clear idea of what they need to do to get the employees that they actually need to hire?

Singapore claims (or wants to be) the silicon valley of asia - I'm struggling to see how such unclear rules help startups at all (mnc's is a different story)

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 4:16 pm

kooltilldend wrote:How is this helping the company though when they have no clear idea of what they need to do to get the employees that they actually need to hire?


If the company is serious, and knows what they are doing, and in serious business, above doesn't matter .. for example, I worked for companies where their EP rejection was ZERO percent, simply because they employed the right people, paid the right salary and ensured sufficient locals were there to complement the 'expats'

kooltilldend wrote:Singapore claims (or wants to be) the silicon valley of asia - I'm struggling to see how such unclear rules help startups at all (mnc's is a different story)


Did they say that ? I dont' recall .. in fact, the SG Govt has been acknowledging that a lot of knowledge work is done overseas and moving in that way, with the GIC Investment et al in that direction

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Postby kooltilldend » Tue, 09 Jul 2013 4:31 pm

ecureilx wrote:If the company is serious, and knows what they are doing, and in serious business, above doesn't matter .. for example, I worked for companies where their EP rejection was ZERO percent, simply because they employed the right people, paid the right salary and ensured sufficient locals were there to complement the 'expats'


It doesn't always work that clearly though...I mean if a company is seeking to hire someone for a position for months yet can't find a local for it despite all their efforts (a typical scenario)...well even if they try to find a foreigner for it, they'll likely end up with a rejection (just the laws)

Did they say that ? I dont' recall .. in fact, the SG Govt has been acknowledging that a lot of knowledge work is done overseas and moving in that way, with the GIC Investment et al in that direction


Well I don't have any source to back my claim but it is a claim I have heard of numerous times...yes a lot of business is moving away from SG but what truly worries me how little SG government is doing to stop that leak - it pains me to see that despite not being a local

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Postby josebhai » Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:16 pm

hi,,


can any one say after how many days i can do a new re application (not appealing) for EP after my EP is rejected once

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:35 pm

First of all we need to know what was actually written on the rejection notice. Secondly, did the employer tick the "will the potential employee accept an S pass if not qualified for an EP?" question?


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