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PR rejected 2013

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Priyaamies
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PR rejected 2013

Postby Priyaamies » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 8:53 pm

Hi,

Our pr application has been rejected after 8 months wait. This is the second time.
Our profile
Husband- Indian, business analyst,permanent role in a bank, 80k++ pa basic and bonus 20k++ pa, married, MBA,MCom,PMP, EP P2 pass holder, in SG since 2010 continuously, but have been onsite multiple times before that.

Wife- Indian, software engineer, was working for 6 months on contract 3700 pm, B.E from good university. Currently not working.

Married since 2012 march

Applied for my first pr in 2011 sept, rejected in dec 2011, stating no fixed time to reapply.

Now, we applied in oct 2012, got rejected July 2013.

We want to start a family and settle in Singapore, we sincerely like the country, and the PR is just not for buying house or to get the perks from govt.

Any suggestions on how to proceed on this? Wait for how long or appeal?
Has anyone ever had success after appeal?

Please share your opinions.

Thanks in advance for your valuable insights.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 9:08 pm

Priyaamies wrote:Hi,

Our pr application has been rejected after 8 months wait. This is the second time.
Our profile
Husband- Indian, business analyst,permanent role in a bank, 80k++ pa basic and bonus 20k++ pa, married, MBA,MCom,PMP, EP P2 pass holder, in SG since 2010 continuously, but have been onsite multiple times before that.

Wife- Indian, software engineer, was working for 6 months on contract 3700 pm, B.E from good university. Currently not working.

Married since 2012 march

Applied for my first pr in 2011 sept, rejected in dec 2011, stating no fixed time to reapply.

Now, we applied in oct 2012, got rejected July 2013.

We want to start a family and settle in Singapore, we sincerely like the country, and the PR is just not for buying house or to get the perks from govt.

Any suggestions on how to proceed on this? Wait for how long or appeal?
Has anyone ever had success after appeal?

Please share your opinions.

Thanks in advance for your valuable insights.


Wait until you have been married "at least" 2 years. No guarantees though.

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Postby Priyaamies » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 9:16 pm

Thanks Sundaymorningstaple.
What about appealing to ICA?
We haven't received the letter yet, so dont know what it sees

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:15 pm

I didn't have any luck on appeal but then that was many, many years ago so things were a lot different then (I'm talking 20 years).

More recently, however, I can tell you that unless you have something to clarify or something more to offer at the appeal, the result is likely to remain the same. The odds are one of the main reason for the rejection may well be the fact that you are only married one year and they are looking for marriages of convenience. Therefore, two to three years of marriage or two years and a child are optimal in that respect, especially if the wife is no longer working.

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Priyaamies » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 7:55 pm

Hi All,

We applied for our PR again in Nov 2014.
It was rejected in February 2015.

Here is what has happened.

Husband working in foreign bank around 5 years
has had a promotion and earning 120k++ per annum now. Has successfully completed his CISA.
I got permanent role with Gemalto for 50k per annum and was working until oct 2014,
I quit because I got pregnant and having severe nausea
and vomiting. My mother's visa could not be extended after 60 days.
Since there was no one to take care of me, I decided to quit considering my health and the baby is important than my job.

Left to india in nov 2014. Husband submitted both our documents to ICA.

Meanwhile we have both been active volunteers in our community centre for a program initiated by the govt for about 1.5 years

We have been married for 3 years and my husband has been staying here for over 6 years continuously and onsite on and off before that.

Our rejection letter stated the " continue to reside in your valid passes"

I am thinking about an appeal due to the following reasons

Husband got another hike now and so his EP will be upgraded to P1 category

I was thinking we could meet the MP and get a letter of reference and appeal. The MP knows that we are both volunteers. We have both lived in the same community since 2011.

Also, what are your thoughts on going via PR agency instead of applying personally.

We sincerely want to settle down here as we want our baby to grow in a safe country like Singapore.

Any advise appreciated.

Thanks

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 8:28 pm

Priyaamies wrote:Hi All,

We applied for our PR again in Nov 2014.
It was rejected in February 2015.

Two rejections is, for all intents and purposes, the kiss of death as far a permanency in Singapore is concerned. If you want to throw good money after bad, by all means hire an agency. They cannot write anything in the boxes except what you could do. They have no better success rate than the average individual applying on their own. Instead, they will take some of your money and then advise you, professionally, that your odds are stacked against you and applying/appealing will be of little use. If you insist, however, they will take your money grudgingly (hehehe). You see, their success rate is by refusing to take on those clients that they know will be rejected. The only difference between them and us is you will pay them to tell you what we tell you for free.

Here is what has happened.

Husband working in foreign bank around 5 years
has had a promotion and earning 120k++ per annum now. Has successfully completed his CISA.

Working in a bank is not a sign of security as most Financial types will jump ship for 10K/year more money and the ICA knows this.

I got permanent role with Gemalto for 50k per annum and was working until oct 2014.

This is of no consequence as you quit when you got pregnant, regardless of the reason. but the next paragraph is the kicker.

I quit because I got pregnant and having severe nausea
and vomiting. My mother's visa could not be extended after 60 days. Normal.
Since there was no one to take care of me, I decided to quit considering my health and the baby is important than my job.

Thousands of people here hire maids or nanny's or midwives to help them in the first couple of months after delivery. What you have shown them is that you are still maintaining close ties with Indian and will run there at the drop of a hat. If you get PR and you get pregnant again, and your mother will not be allowed to come here are you going to run back to India again? Probably yes. Big strike against your PR application.

Left to india in nov 2014. Husband submitted both our documents to ICA.

Meanwhile we have both been active volunteers in our community centre for a program initiated by the govt for about 1.5 years

I've seen this happen so often that now ICA views this ruse as a joke. I'm a long time member of our resident's committee and I've seen numerous Indians join as either observers (if applying for PR) or Executive Members (if PR and trying to apply for citizenship). They stay and attend and help out until they get what they want from the ICA and then we never see them again. lCA is wise to that now.

We have been married for 3 years and my husband has been staying here for over 6 years continuously and onsite on and off before that.

Our rejection letter stated the " continue to reside in your valid passes"

This letter is the kiss of death to PR. It means that you are welcome to stay here and work but "we don't want you here permanently". We see this too many times, especially since GE 2011 when the government went on a pogrom again the increase of the resident Indian population (which was ICA's fault in the first place but MOM wanted and needed the IT programmers). Now they are trying to correct the population demographic to what it was at around 2000.

I am thinking about an appeal due to the following reasons

Husband got another hike now and so his EP will be upgraded to P1 category

This means nothing. I've seen single Chinese Malaysian girls with B.Sc. and only earning 5K apply and get PR and we've had a desperate Indian family on here recently making over 250K/pa and was rejected. The ICA knows the Financial types will not stay here.

I was thinking we could meet the MP and get a letter of reference and appeal. The MP knows that we are both volunteers. We have both lived in the same community since 2011.

MPs cannot do anything. Trust me. A lot have tried. Including my PAP card carrying boss for a member of his own family. I tried years ago using two different MPs of a 3 year span and a Mayor as well. To no avail.
They will graciously write a letter so as not to disappoint you, but they already know the score.


Also, what are your thoughts on going via PR agency instead of applying personally.

See my comment in my first paragraph.

We sincerely want to settle down here as we want our baby to grow in a safe country like Singapore.

Any advise appreciated.

Think about Australia or Canada.

Thanks


Has the baby been born yet? Male or Female?

SMS

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Wd40 » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 8:45 pm

Its been ages since I heard of an Indian couple who applied for PR and got it, especially working in banking.
I would imagine there are 10s of 1000s of Indians of similar profile IT/Banking/senior executives in MNCs who have been rejected.

I think EP is now the new PR. With the voices growing against immigration and the looming elections, just be happy to have a job and an EP here. Wait it out, if you can for a few years, or else move to greener shores, if you can. I know of plenty of Indians, even PRs who have recently ditched Singapore and gone on to take H1-B visas or to UK/Australia/India.

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Priyaamies » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 9:45 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Priyaamies wrote:Hi All,

We applied for our PR again in Nov 2014.
It was rejected in February 2015.

Two rejections is, for all intents and purposes, the kiss of death as far a permanency in Singapore is concerned. If you want to throw good money after bad, by all means hire an agency. They cannot write anything in the boxes except what you could do. They have no better success rate than the average individual applying on their own. Instead, they will take some of your money and then advise you, professionally, that your odds are stacked against you and applying/appealing will be of little use. If you insist, however, they will take your money grudgingly (hehehe). You see, their success rate is by refusing to take on those clients that they know will be rejected. The only difference between them and us is you will pay them to tell you what we tell you for free.

Here is what has happened.

Husband working in foreign bank around 5 years
has had a promotion and earning 120k++ per annum now. Has successfully completed his CISA.

Working in a bank is not a sign of security as most Financial types will jump ship for 10K/year more money and the ICA knows this.

Nope. For us stability is important than the money. Because he got several offers with other banks. Also he is in Compliance domain. Not technical

I got permanent role with Gemalto for 50k per annum and was working until oct 2014.

This is of no consequence as you quit when you got pregnant, regardless of the reason. but the next paragraph is the kicker.

I quit because I got pregnant and having severe nausea
and vomiting. My mother's visa could not be extended after 60 days. Normal.
Since there was no one to take care of me, I decided to quit considering my health and the baby is important than my job.

Thousands of people here hire maids or nanny's or midwives to help them in the first couple of months after delivery. What you have shown them is that you are still maintaining close ties with Indian and will run there at the drop of a hat. If you get PR and you get pregnant again, and your mother will not be allowed to come here are you going to run back to India again? Probably yes. Big strike against your PR application.

As a first time mom, I cannot and will not trust a maid to take care of me. I went to the ICA twice asking for my mother's visa to be extended despite my vomiting. We were not even given a token to visit the ica officer. FYI I very much wanted to deliver in Singapore and I was seeing KK hospital.Since there was no possibility of my family support I had to go back.

Left to india in nov 2014. Husband submitted both our documents to ICA.

Meanwhile we have both been active volunteers in our community centre for a program initiated by the govt for about 1.5 years

I've seen this happen so often that now ICA views this ruse as a joke. I'm a long time member of our resident's committee and I've seen numerous Indians join as either observers (if applying for PR) or Executive Members (if PR and trying to apply for citizenship). They stay and attend and help out until they get what they want from the ICA and then we never see them again. lCA is wise to that now.

we have both been volunteers even before we applied for the PR. We are not observers, we volunteer over the weekends carrying huge bags of monthly households to be delivered at the needy's doorstep.

We have been married for 3 years and my husband has been staying here for over 6 years continuously and onsite on and off before that.

Our rejection letter stated the " continue to reside in your valid passes"

This letter is the kiss of death to PR. It means that you are welcome to stay here and work but "we don't want you here permanently". We see this too many times, especially since GE 2011 when the government went on a pogrom again the increase of the resident Indian population (which was ICA's fault in the first place but MOM wanted and needed the IT programmers). Now they are trying to correct the population demographic to what it was at around 2000.


I read in some other thread, that someone's pr was approved after receiving this type of letter content. If they wish to correct population demographic, they should rather not renew all Indian PRs, and have a recheck on who it wants to give the PR to. Because we know of fellow Indians who have exploited the concept of PR for their fancy. Hence the ones who want to genuinely settle here are not given an option.
I am thinking about an appeal due to the following reasons

Husband got another hike now and so his EP will be upgraded to P1 category

This means nothing. I've seen single Chinese Malaysian girls with B.Sc. and only earning 5K apply and get PR and we've had a desperate Indian family on here recently making over 250K/pa and was rejected. The ICA knows the Financial types will not stay here.

what I don't understand about this government is, the rules are not clearly set, and it's unfair to someone who genuinely wants to settle down here. Other countries have better visibility in their residency rules.

I was thinking we could meet the MP and get a letter of reference and appeal. The MP knows that we are both volunteers. We have both lived in the same community since 2011.

MPs cannot do anything. Trust me. A lot have tried. Including my PAP card carrying boss for a member of his own family. I tried years ago using two different MPs of a 3 year span and a Mayor as well. To no avail.
They will graciously write a letter so as not to disappoint you, but they already know the score.


Also, what are your thoughts on going via PR agency instead of applying personally.

See my comment in my first paragraph.

We sincerely want to settle down here as we want our baby to grow in a safe country like Singapore.

Any advise appreciated.

Think about Australia or Canada.

we want to live in Singapore because it's a safe and secure country. We have both had offers in the US and other countries, but we would very much like to stay here.

Thanks


Has the baby been born yet? Male or Female? due is in 2 weeks or so. If it's a baby boy I will gladly put him in NS, I'm not against service towards a country.

SMS, Can we wait and re apply again after a year as you say appeal won't do much?
SMS

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Priyaamies » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 9:49 pm

Wd40 wrote:Its been ages since I heard of an Indian couple who applied for PR and got it, especially working in banking.
I would imagine there are 10s of 1000s of Indians of similar profile IT/Banking/senior executives in MNCs who have been rejected.

I think EP is now the new PR. With the voices growing against immigration and the looming elections, just be happy to have a job and an EP here. Wait it out, if you can for a few years, or else move to greener shores, if you can. I know of plenty of Indians, even PRs who have recently ditched Singapore and gone on to take H1-B visas or to UK/Australia/India.


but my husband is in compliance domain in banking and it's pretty sought after.I guess we'll have to wait it out. Safety first. I don't think US, UK , Australia are safe. ](*,)

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Wd40 » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 9:57 pm

Two rejections is, for all intents and purposes, the kiss of death as far a permanency in Singapore is concerned. If you want to throw good money after bad, by all means hire an agency. They cannot write anything in the boxes except what you could do. They have no better success rate than the average individual applying on their own. Instead, they will take some of your money and then advise you, professionally, that your odds are stacked against you and applying/appealing will be of little use. If you insist, however, they will take your money grudgingly (hehehe). You see, their success rate is by refusing to take on those clients that they know will be rejected. The only difference between them and us is you will pay them to tell you what we tell you for free.

Here is what has happened.

Husband working in foreign bank around 5 years
has had a promotion and earning 120k++ per annum now. Has successfully completed his CISA.

Working in a bank is not a sign of security as most Financial types will jump ship for 10K/year more money and the ICA knows this.

Nope. For us stability is important than the money. Because he got several offers with other banks. Also he is in Compliance domain. Not technical

I got permanent role with Gemalto for 50k per annum and was working until oct 2014.

This is of no consequence as you quit when you got pregnant, regardless of the reason. but the next paragraph is the kicker.

I quit because I got pregnant and having severe nausea
and vomiting. My mother's visa could not be extended after 60 days. Normal.
Since there was no one to take care of me, I decided to quit considering my health and the baby is important than my job.

Thousands of people here hire maids or nanny's or midwives to help them in the first couple of months after delivery. What you have shown them is that you are still maintaining close ties with Indian and will run there at the drop of a hat. If you get PR and you get pregnant again, and your mother will not be allowed to come here are you going to run back to India again? Probably yes. Big strike against your PR application.

As a first time mom, I cannot and will not trust a maid to take care of me. I went to the ICA twice asking for my mother's visa to be extended despite my vomiting. We were not even given a token to visit the ica officer. FYI I very much wanted to deliver in Singapore and I was seeing KK hospital.Since there was no possibility of my family support I had to go back.

Left to india in nov 2014. Husband submitted both our documents to ICA.

Meanwhile we have both been active volunteers in our community centre for a program initiated by the govt for about 1.5 years

I've seen this happen so often that now ICA views this ruse as a joke. I'm a long time member of our resident's committee and I've seen numerous Indians join as either observers (if applying for PR) or Executive Members (if PR and trying to apply for citizenship). They stay and attend and help out until they get what they want from the ICA and then we never see them again. lCA is wise to that now.

we have both been volunteers even before we applied for the PR. We are not observers, we volunteer over the weekends carrying huge bags of monthly households to be delivered at the needy's doorstep.

We have been married for 3 years and my husband has been staying here for over 6 years continuously and onsite on and off before that.

Our rejection letter stated the " continue to reside in your valid passes"

This letter is the kiss of death to PR. It means that you are welcome to stay here and work but "we don't want you here permanently". We see this too many times, especially since GE 2011 when the government went on a pogrom again the increase of the resident Indian population (which was ICA's fault in the first place but MOM wanted and needed the IT programmers). Now they are trying to correct the population demographic to what it was at around 2000.


I read in some other thread, that someone's pr was approved after receiving this type of letter content. If they wish to correct population demographic, they should rather not renew all Indian PRs, and have a recheck on who it wants to give the PR to. Because we know of fellow Indians who have exploited the concept of PR for their fancy. Hence the ones who want to genuinely settle here are not given an option.
I am thinking about an appeal due to the following reasons

Husband got another hike now and so his EP will be upgraded to P1 category

This means nothing. I've seen single Chinese Malaysian girls with B.Sc. and only earning 5K apply and get PR and we've had a desperate Indian family on here recently making over 250K/pa and was rejected. The ICA knows the Financial types will not stay here.

what I don't understand about this government is, the rules are not clearly set, and it's unfair to someone who genuinely wants to settle down here. Other countries have better visibility in their residency rules.

I was thinking we could meet the MP and get a letter of reference and appeal. The MP knows that we are both volunteers. We have both lived in the same community since 2011.

MPs cannot do anything. Trust me. A lot have tried. Including my PAP card carrying boss for a member of his own family. I tried years ago using two different MPs of a 3 year span and a Mayor as well. To no avail.
They will graciously write a letter so as not to disappoint you, but they already know the score.


Also, what are your thoughts on going via PR agency instead of applying personally.

See my comment in my first paragraph.

We sincerely want to settle down here as we want our baby to grow in a safe country like Singapore.

Any advise appreciated.

Think about Australia or Canada.

we want to live in Singapore because it's a safe and secure country. We have both had offers in the US and other countries, but we would very much like to stay here.

Thanks[/quote]

Has the baby been born yet? Male or Female? due is in 2 weeks or so. If it's a baby boy I will gladly put him in NS, I'm not against service towards a country.

SMS, Can we wait and re apply again after a year as you say appeal won't do much?
SMS[/quote][/quote]


Priyaamies wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Its been ages since I heard of an Indian couple who applied for PR and got it, especially working in banking.
I would imagine there are 10s of 1000s of Indians of similar profile IT/Banking/senior executives in MNCs who have been rejected.

I think EP is now the new PR. With the voices growing against immigration and the looming elections, just be happy to have a job and an EP here. Wait it out, if you can for a few years, or else move to greener shores, if you can. I know of plenty of Indians, even PRs who have recently ditched Singapore and gone on to take H1-B visas or to UK/Australia/India.


but my husband is in compliance domain in banking and it's pretty sought after.I guess we'll have to wait it out. Safety first. I don't think US, UK , Australia are safe. ](*,)


Pretty sought after is good enough to get an EP. PR is a different kettle of fish, read the threads on this forum and you will know the equations.

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:07 pm

Priyaamies wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Its been ages since I heard of an Indian couple who applied for PR and got it, especially working in banking.
I would imagine there are 10s of 1000s of Indians of similar profile IT/Banking/senior executives in MNCs who have been rejected.

I think EP is now the new PR. With the voices growing against immigration and the looming elections, just be happy to have a job and an EP here. Wait it out, if you can for a few years, or else move to greener shores, if you can. I know of plenty of Indians, even PRs who have recently ditched Singapore and gone on to take H1-B visas or to UK/Australia/India.


but my husband is in compliance domain in banking and it's pretty sought after.I guess we'll have to wait it out. Safety first. I don't think US, UK , Australia are safe. ](*,)


Safe? A damn sight safer than India and probably - in the long term (generations) - Singapore
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Wd40 » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:22 pm

Australia and Uk are safe, if you use your common senses and stay out of trouble. On the positive side, people there have real emotions and expressive. You can strike a conversation with strangers in public places, people smile at you. In Singapore well....

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby Priyaamies » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:25 pm

Hi SMS

Is it true that there is quota refresh every year?
Because both the times we applied towards the end of the year.
Also I read somewhere that adding a cover letter to the application adds value. Sounds lame to me.

Thanks
Priya

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:47 pm

Priyaamies wrote:Hi SMS

Is it true that there is quota refresh every year?
Because both the times we applied towards the end of the year.
Also I read somewhere that adding a cover letter to the application adds value. Sounds lame to me.

Thanks
Priya


Both suggestions are lame. The closest thing that there is to a quota is the annual quota which isn't a quota at all, at least in the sense of from a racial point of view. People are getting PR every month of the year. What is different is that they have cut down on allowing Indians in as there are just too many here for the comfort of the Chinese dominated PAP. The percentages used to be maintained at around 9% of the resident population but now it's up to around 12.5% and that means a substantial increase. That's without throwing the Indian Foreign Workers in the construction industries (WPs) or the hoards of Indians already in the Banking and IT industries here, much to the chagrin of the locals PMETs who accuse the Indian HR functionaries in these industries of playing favourtism and only hiring other Indians. When the government gets tired of being abused then they use a very large brush to tar the whole race, unfortunately. As I noted in my previous post, we've seen 250K/year + with longer backgrounds and better credentials possibly also get rejected (oh, and also the obligatory "community service" in order to gain possible brownie points. The penchant of Indians to hire only their own has cast a pall over immigration and a very long shadow over all who are desirous of staying today. When will it end? Good question. I don't have that answer. Our/my prognosis is based solely on anecdotal evidence gained from this board and also as the HR manager of a medium sized SME here. Quota's are nothing but rumours to dispell disappointment, nothing more.

sms

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Re: PR rejected 2013

Postby midlet2013 » Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:53 pm

Nobody can be sure about this. My take is that this is something people tell themselves to console themselves.

As someone pointed, your chances of PR here are very small. So, seriously consider other countries or even India.

Again, how is safety in a country that does not want you make it more attractive than US/AUS/UK.

Priyaamies wrote:Hi SMS

Is it true that there is quota refresh every year?
Because both the times we applied towards the end of the year.
Also I read somewhere that adding a cover letter to the application adds value. Sounds lame to me.

Thanks
Priya


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