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Subcontinental PR Abuse....... :x

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katbh
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Postby katbh » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 4:56 pm

Why should whole families be forced into PR when only one may want it? The UK govt, the Australian govt, indeed most governments, do not insist that all members become PR or Citizens when only one applies.

Ones nationality is a personal choice, and I assume this is why the Singapore govt recognises that children, who do not have the legal capacity to make the decision, can have dual citizenship. They can make the choice when they are older. At times, a parent will also make a decision for a child when they think that they would like to keep their child's options open. Sometimes, it is not for a parent to make hard and fast decisions as to nationality. I know my partner was annoyed by his parents making them emigrate as a family. He at least had the chance to reverse the move as he had retained dual citizenship.

It is simply illogical insist that whole families should be forced into PR or Citizenship because of the wishes of one member. It merely means that some members, who may not wish to be included become less loyal or unwilling citizens and PRs.

The old systems was a good one. Each member of a family could make a choice about how committed they were to Singapore. Those that were not committed, could only stay on short term passes, those who wanted to stay could start the process towards citizenship.

I remember when you could apply for PR before you came to Singapore. This is how it works in most countries when you want to emigrate. But Singapore, is different - perhaps Singapore wants to such and see before it allows you in. They do like to have their cake and eat it too. I would suggest that Singapore has a very different take on immigration/emigration - they seem to see these as fluid.

Most people, who chose to emigrate from their country of origin, chose where they want to go, make and application for residency and then move with the expectation that this will be their home for the rest of their lives. This was the traditional route. This has changed so much in Singapore - less so in the rest of the world. If you chose to immigrate to the UK the Home Office like to think that they are giving you a visa for you to ultimately become a Citizen. Yes, it gets abused, but this is the official intent.

And as a final note, remember that although our host nation professes that it does not allow dual citizenship, there are plenty of Singaporean adults that have it!

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:10 pm

Hannieroo wrote:I don't think a government should interfere with a parent's educational choices providing the child is receiving one.

But other than that I think you should be in or out. You want to be Singaporean, American, British or whatever or you don't. No mix and match cut to fit. No dual nationality.

While I understand why they do not allow it here, I really think it is a double edge sword for a country that tries to get some new, valuable citizens in. You spent half of your life in one place, have your family, roots over there, feel loyal to that country and then you move to a new place, spent few more years, feel more like home now and than what, all the past disappears? It's kind of like you stay with your parents and then get married and move out on your own. With the husband or wife you should be loyal to now it does not stop you to be still loyal to your parents. Am I that old fashioned?

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Postby katbh » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:15 pm

+1.
Yes, how do you forget your past or history. I believe people of Indian descent have a great system where you can keep ties to India by your race.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:26 pm

katbh wrote:+1.
Yes, how do you forget your past or history. I believe people of Indian descent have a great system where you can keep ties to India by your race.


On the other extreme, there are people who don't or don't even try to integrate into their "adoptive" countries.

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Postby Hannieroo » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:39 pm

It doesn't make your past disappear. But if you've decided on your present and your future you need to crack on with it. No double dipping. It doesn't mean you lose who you are, your culture and I don't think it should mean you can't send your children to whatever school you please.

But I do think it's off to want to benefit as a citizen and all that entails but not sign up fully in order to dodge NS. That is cheating a little. Hey, yes I'll improve my chances of work, be able to buy property and guarantee my children an SG education if they want one but I'm not going to help defend the country. Take the package or not.

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Postby Hannieroo » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:48 pm

Sorry, Kat, I missed your post.

Is that the difference between SG and other places then? People come here then decide they like it but because they arrived through work or whatever don't feel they are Singaporean? But people sign up before emigrating to Australia so go in feeling they want the whole package?

I dunno. My thoughts are probably colored by people who are as British as I am who put their grandparents point of origin over the nation they live in.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:49 pm

Hidy Ho wrote:"Subcontinental PR Abuse....... Mad"

Really??? What abuse, except for starting a thread that point negatively at one group of people???


The title of the article, if you bothered to open it up, was:

ST REPORT REVEALS INDIAN FTS PREFER TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO INTERNATIONAL INSTEAD OF LOCAL SCHOOLS

I was linking a specific article. I further went on to include ALL abusers from MY point of view. Maybe you ought to read for context next time. Hmmmm?

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:54 pm

katbh wrote:Why should whole families be forced into PR when only one may want it? The UK govt, the Australian govt, indeed most governments, do not insist that all members become PR or Citizens when only one applies.


As a matter of fact, due to medical reasons, (read: handicapped) Australia recently had a case of the the parents of a child allowed to be resident but not the child .. :) so how ??

Hannieroo wrote:... Is that the difference between SG and other places then? People come here then decide they like it but because they arrived through work or whatever don't feel they are Singaporean? But people sign up before emigrating to Australia so go in feeling they want the whole ...


And of late, since back in my country the situation improved, many a Australian new citizens / residents have been quietly getting back to their own country and doing business / consulting etc. I wonder how australia could device a way to kick out new citizens, if there was even an option like that !!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 5:59 pm

Hannieroo wrote:But I do think it's off to want to benefit as a citizen and all that entails but not sign up fully in order to dodge NS. That is cheating a little. Hey, yes I'll improve my chances of work, be able to buy property and guarantee my children an SG education if they want one but I'm not going to help defend the country. Take the package or not.


^This.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 6:09 pm

Well, my son is PR since he was 5 months old and he will serve NS if necessary (not that I am particularly happy about this). Also, having Singapore and my current citizenship will not make me any less loyal to Singapore but giving up the first will make me feel like a betrayal. What Singapore should hope ultimately for is to get loyal citizens by the true virtue of this word and not just some semi random people who find this place a better opportunity for them and will chose to stay here because they have no other choice. Current approach favors the later ones.

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Postby triste » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 6:58 pm

x9200 wrote:
Hannieroo wrote:I don't think a government should interfere with a parent's educational choices providing the child is receiving one.

But other than that I think you should be in or out. You want to be Singaporean, American, British or whatever or you don't. No mix and match cut to fit. No dual nationality.

While I understand why they do not allow it here, I really think it is a double edge sword for a country that tries to get some new, valuable citizens in. You spent half of your life in one place, have your family, roots over there, feel loyal to that country and then you move to a new place, spent few more years, feel more like home now and than what, all the past disappears? It's kind of like you stay with your parents and then get married and move out on your own. With the husband or wife you should be loyal to now it does not stop you to be still loyal to your parents. Am I that old fashioned?


Another +1 to this. If dual citizenship were offered, I believe I'd attempt that path but I have no interest in ever giving up my citizenship in my home country. I'm not here because I don't want to be there. And God forbid, if something happened to any of my family back there, I want to be able to return and make things right for them as much as I am able.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 7:46 pm

x9200 wrote:Well, my son is PR since he was 5 months old and he will serve NS if necessary (not that I am particularly happy about this). Also, having Singapore and my current citizenship will not make me any less loyal to Singapore but giving up the first will make me feel like a betrayal. What Singapore should hope ultimately for is to get loyal citizens by the true virtue of this word and not just some semi random people who find this place a better opportunity for them and will chose to stay here because they have no other choice. Current approach favors the later ones.


+1 to this .. and .. well, there are others too, who are more affluent, and for temporary convenience, take up PR/SC .. and then ditch it when their objectives have changed .. Like a new SC guy I know who later married a German Girl and when she decided to move back, the husband followed .. and like that ..

Do they count as 'abusers' ?? :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 8:08 pm

Would Saint be accused of being an abuser? He and his wife applied for his PR while still in the UK and only came to Singapore when he was to finalize his PR . Should the UK consider him an abuser as his wife was with him in the UK and he followed her back to Singapore? I think not. Different kettle of fish.

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Postby Hannieroo » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 8:49 pm

I think if there is tactical of how to get the most out of a country whilst contributing as little as you can legally get away with then you could be seen as a bit slippery. But life changes and that is different.

I don't want my boys doing NS here. But I also have no desire to put roots down here either, it's a posting and that's it. But I would give up all of our passports in a heartbeat if the option was open to us in the country of our choice and if that involved NS and getting their flag tattooed on my ass then so be it.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 9:00 pm

on an after thought .. the TOC article itself maybe a wind up says me ..

Generally, South Indians don't go Bhajan .. generally .. unlike North Indians .. unless they joined some Hare Rama Hare Krishna or some Yoga Group ..

just saying ;)


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