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Edward Snowden - Great American Patriot or Gutless Traitor?

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Edward Snowden - Great American Patriot or Gutless Traitor?

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 7:36 pm

Apart from his hilarious game of "where's Snowden" it seems the US populace is very much against him....I'm not thrilled that he now seems to be in bed with that great Aussie self grandiser Assange but Snowden seems to have done the public a service.

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Post by Hannieroo » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 7:46 pm

Not gutless. But I'm not sure. Either way he'll be dead before the year is out.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Great American Patriot or Gutless Trait

Post by zzm9980 » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 8:43 pm

PNGMK wrote: it seems the US populace is very much against him...
I'd say at least 50%, more like the majority, are generally in favor of him. I'm not sure they'd call him a patriot, but they're angrier at what the NSA is doing than what he did. It's just the big government talking heads that are making all of the noise on TV.

And I'll agree, his getting into bed with Assange has left a bad taste in my mouth. Generally I'm in favor of what he did. He didn't plan it out properly though, and I hope he doesn't start trading intel to just anyone for protection. And while I hope for that, I can't say I wouldn't do it in his position.

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Post by Strong Eagle » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:23 pm

You're forcing a false choice. He is actually neither. And in the USA, his actions have made for some strange bedfellows. Normally liberal senators standing up for the NSA while conservatives who are hawkish on security are now "appalled".

My sense is that the vast majority of people, while seeing the betrayal, are nonetheless glad he did it and are waiting for the next chapter to unfold.

It, however, remains to be seen whether the useless godd*mn mainstream media will actually ever focus on the issues raised by Snowden instead of following his flight schedule.

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Post by Hannieroo » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 11:29 pm

Yeah, Sky are just spending their time relating the whole hot potato game. We don't have him, do you have him?

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Post by the lynx » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 9:09 am

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/natio ... ndictment/
My understanding is that espionage means giving secret or classified information to the enemy. Since Snowden shared information with the American people, his indictment for espionage could reveal (or confirm) that the US Government views you and me as the enemy.

-Ron Paul

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Post by nakatago » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 9:25 am

Strong Eagle wrote: It, however, remains to be seen whether the useless godd*mn mainstream media will actually ever focus on the issues raised by Snowden instead of following his flight schedule.
FWIW, Snowden is at least being smart about things, or at least trying to be.

* He wasn't even on the plane to Moscow
* He sent encrypted documents to key people all over the world
* He's still sorting the rest of the documents for those he hasn't distributed yet (unlike the wikileaks cables which endangered active Afghan informants)

I'm willing to bet he has used more than one form or layer of misdirection. He probably doesn't look like he does when he appeared on TV anymore.

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 9:39 am

nakatago wrote: * He wasn't even on the plane to Moscow
He made it to Moscow, it's the flight out everyone thought he was on that he ditched. The Russians apparently helped; they put police all around the plane and "secured" the area.

Apparently the Russians did this as a big joke, too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world ... oscow.html
By contrast, everyone knew where half of the Moscow press corps was: halfway to Havana, on one of the few regular Russian flights that does not serve alcohol. It was the kind of plan that the F.S.B., and the K.G.B. before it, would describe as a “special operation.â€Â

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Post by nakatago » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 9:48 am

zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote: * He wasn't even on the plane to Moscow
He made it to Moscow, it's the flight out everyone thought he was on that he ditched. The Russians apparently helped; they put police all around the plane and "secured" the area.

Apparently the Russians did this as a big joke, too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world ... oscow.html
By contrast, everyone knew where half of the Moscow press corps was: halfway to Havana, on one of the few regular Russian flights that does not serve alcohol. It was the kind of plan that the F.S.B., and the K.G.B. before it, would describe as a “special operation.â€Â

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Post by Strong Eagle » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:17 am

the lynx wrote:http://www.campaignforliberty.org/natio ... ndictment/
My understanding is that espionage means giving secret or classified information to the enemy. Since Snowden shared information with the American people, his indictment for espionage could reveal (or confirm) that the US Government views you and me as the enemy.

-Ron Paul
I like this.

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Post by Addadude » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:26 am

the lynx wrote:http://www.campaignforliberty.org/natio ... ndictment/
My understanding is that espionage means giving secret or classified information to the enemy. Since Snowden shared information with the American people, his indictment for espionage could reveal (or confirm) that the US Government views you and me as the enemy.

-Ron Paul
Awesome!
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Post by ecureilx » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:27 am

zzm9980 wrote:He made it to Moscow, it's the flight out everyone thought he was on that he ditched. The Russians apparently helped; they put police all around the plane and "secured" the area.
The Russians must be having a great laugh at the way things are going .. especially since during the Cold War both sides were playing Childish games ..

Atleast they are humouring the rest of the world ..

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:35 am

This is amusing. Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian reporter who was in HK with Snowden:

[quote]“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,â€Â

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:38 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
the lynx wrote:http://www.campaignforliberty.org/natio ... ndictment/
My understanding is that espionage means giving secret or classified information to the enemy. Since Snowden shared information with the American people, his indictment for espionage could reveal (or confirm) that the US Government views you and me as the enemy.

-Ron Paul
I like this.
I do too, and I don't really like Ron Paul.

I had a similar thought this morning. BBC was covering how Musharref was to be put on trial for treason in Pakistan soon, for subverting their constitution with some of his emergency orders.

I wonder if in my lifetime I'll ever see US Politicians put on trial for treason for subverting the US Constitution?

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Post by bgd » Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:49 am

[quote="zzm9980"]This is amusing. Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian reporter who was in HK with Snowden:

[quote]“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,â€Â

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