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uscate
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Postby uscate » Thu, 20 Jun 2013 9:56 pm

But this is not "haze...." This is POLLUTION!! For sake of clarity, let's please call it what it is.....

Here's some info on what wood smoke pollution (euphemistically called "haze" in the Sing jargon) can do to you (from a US publication re: wood stoves): Smoke from wood heaters is a major cause of air pollution. In fact, during winter, wood heaters can produce up to seven times as much particle pollution as cars.

Wood smoke contains a number of noxious gases (including carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, and a range of organic compounds, some of which are toxic or carcinogenic) and fine particles, which go deep into the lungs.

Although we're clearly not talking about wood stoves here, I think we can extrapolate to the issue at hand....I'm really amazed that this is continually referred to as "Haze," as though it's a minor inconvenience....

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:22 pm

BedokAmerican wrote:I was being sarcastic when I made the comment about Sg wanting to kick Indonesia out of ASEAN. Sorry, maybe my sarcasm was too over the top.

I made the comment because Sg is upset with Indonesia over the fires causing the smog and Indonesian officials today said Sg is "acting like a child" over the haze.


OH, I completely missed it and thought you were serious. It sounds like something a local would say, without realizing Indonesia is a founding member of ASEAN and this isn't the kind of thing they could be kicked out over anyway. (Again, I wouldn't expect most local to make that distinction).

Interestingly, there was an "ASEAN Agreement on Trans-boundary Haze Pollution" treaty. One country didn't ratify it. Donut (J.co!) to the person who guesses. Yes, there was a subtle hint there if you actually needed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEAN_Agre ... _Pollution

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Postby Akimbo » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 7:01 am

Saw the reading at NEA at 6AM...it reads 94...and I look outside, and it looks and smells worse than yesterday morning...

You sure that's true?

(I live in Serangoon area)
Last edited by Akimbo on Fri, 21 Jun 2013 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 8:45 am

Akimbo wrote:Saw the reading at NEA at 6AM...it reads 94...and I look outside, and it looks and smells worse than yesterday morning...


Yeah I've observed the same thing. The numbers are ~180 by me now, but it's thick, yellow, and I'm coughing a bunch. I haven't before today.

I do not agree with or endorse any accusation against specific individuals in regards to government policies. I suggest you edit your post.

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Postby Akimbo » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 9:10 am

Editted as you've suggested zzm, but still...there's a policy on that?
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Postby the lynx » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 9:24 am

Akimbo wrote:Editted as you've suggested zzm, but still...there's a policy on that?


Not the forum policy but we just want to remind forum regulars to be careful when it comes to mentioning local political figures here to avoid being accused for defamation.

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Postby Akimbo » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 9:30 am

I was actually referring to the gahmen policy...something like "we do it so that we would not cause panic to the masses" sort of stuff.

And would it actually be defamation? I'm just questioning the comment that was made (in public) which of course anybody else can also question because of the discrepancy between the reading and the actual sighting of today's haze...or?
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Postby QRM » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:48 am

Akimbo wrote:I was actually referring to the gahmen policy...something like "we do it so that we would not cause panic to the masses" sort of stuff.

And would it actually be defamation? I'm just questioning the comment that was made (in public) which of course anybody else can also question because of the discrepancy between the reading and the actual sighting of today's haze...or?


ha ha no way am I going to question it :o you are own your own :P remember you are nothing but a number...

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Postby Akimbo » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:10 am

Ignorance begets innocence I guess... :oops:

So okay, I just checked out the fine print, and saw...
"The 3hr PSI readings are calculated based on PM10 concentrations only."

So PM2.5 reading is actually not being read...

That would explain why the discrepancy of what we actually see and what they actually display...and there's also this 3-hour reading, that would also explain why at 6 o'clock it was only 94, as the period between 3-4am, 4-5am might be so low, it gives such an average...

Of course I could be wrong in this...

But if I'm right, the actual PSI level (with PM2.5) should be even more than what they're actually displaying (only PM10)

UPDATE:
11 AM, and 3-hour PM10 PSI level is 400...happy smoking!
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:16 am

Akimbo wrote:And would it actually be defamation? I'm just questioning the comment that was made (in public) which of course anybody else can also question because of the discrepancy between the reading and the actual sighting of today's haze...or?



Keep out of politics in Singapore, is my 2c

There has been one family in power for c50 years, and 'one might argue' they have a bit of history at crushing anything that gets in their way. Sometimes you have to second guess whether having any opinion is... um... worth-while. Many locals I know shrug with the hint of a smile, and 'profess not to care'.

Defamation or not, it's their way or the highway.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:31 pm

You're allowed to criticize government policy. You're not allowed to criticize individuals or groups of individuals you believe are behind those policies. The later makes you liable for defamation in Singapore. As implied above, it's not an under-used law either.

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 3:23 pm

BedokAmerican wrote:I was being sarcastic when I made the comment about Sg wanting to kick Indonesia out of ASEAN. Sorry, maybe my sarcasm was too over the top.

I made the comment because Sg is upset with Indonesia over the fires causing the smog and Indonesian officials today said Sg is "acting like a child" over the haze.


OOT: well, what I can say is that some of the local officials in Indonesia may rant first, and after that, revise the previous statement(s). I'm not trying to "burn" the local officials, but sadly, it's a known "behavior". It's kinda complicated, but that's the way it is (although the transformation is in progress).

BTT: even if Singapore and Malaysia are affected with the smog, the situation in Riau is worse (CMIIW). Although last year the smog wasn't this bad, I just wonder why there's no permanent solution for this.
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 3:47 pm

v4jr4 wrote:
BedokAmerican wrote:I was being sarcastic when I made the comment about Sg wanting to kick Indonesia out of ASEAN. Sorry, maybe my sarcasm was too over the top.

I made the comment because Sg is upset with Indonesia over the fires causing the smog and Indonesian officials today said Sg is "acting like a child" over the haze.


OOT: well, what I can say is that some of the local officials in Indonesia may rant first, and after that, revise the previous statement(s). I'm not trying to "burn" the local officials, but sadly, it's a known "behavior". It's kinda complicated, but that's the way it is (although the transformation is in progress).

BTT: even if Singapore and Malaysia are affected with the smog, the situation in Riau is worse (CMIIW). Although last year the smog wasn't this bad, I just wonder why there's no permanent solution for this.


May be because for a country like Indonesia, this is no big deal and not worth dealing with, and they dont give a damn about a tiny so called developed country that is its neighbour :P

Hey Vajra! Welcome back :)

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 4:26 pm

Wd40 wrote:May be because for a country like Indonesia, this is no big deal and not worth dealing with, and they dont give a damn about a tiny so called developed country that is its neighbour :P


Well, based on the corruption index... oh, nevermind :roll:

Wd40 wrote:Hey Vajra! Welcome back :)


Barely dodge the bullet, but I'm still here :lol:
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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:32 pm

v4jr4 wrote:BTT: even if Singapore and Malaysia are affected with the smog, the situation in Riau is worse (CMIIW). Although last year the smog wasn't this bad, I just wonder why there's no permanent solution for this.


There is a permanent solution for this. Malaysia has already done it. Indonesia doesn't want to do it because it costs money and takes time. Corruption. Rather than burning the jungle, Malaysia cuts it down, then buries it into large trenches with bulldozers. It then takes about 3 years for the plant material to decompose, at which time the land can be used for oil palms.


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