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katbh
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Postby katbh » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 9:47 am

+1 to above

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 10:27 am

ecureilx wrote:PS: for those who are insisting charities are scamming, do yourself a favour: go and complain to CPIB or COC !! than throwing wild accusations.


You appear confused.

The NKF were scamming, that's why it's leaders were jailed. Correct?

Much of the rest of the discussion concerns the general philosophy of the act of charity: What are these 'wild accusations' that you allude to?

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 10:59 am

ecureilx wrote:PS: for those who are insisting charities are scamming, do yourself a favour: go and complain to CPIB or COC !! than throwing wild accusations.


I'm not accusing any specific charity of any specific acts. I've just said that enough charities practice shading enough dealings that it is not worth my time and effort to vet every single org that sticks students out there with stickers asking for my money. When charities in general earn MY trust, maybe I'll think differently.

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:20 am

JR8 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:PS: for those who are insisting charities are scamming, do yourself a favour: go and complain to CPIB or COC !! than throwing wild accusations.


You appear confused.

The NKF were scamming, that's why it's leaders were jailed. Correct?

Much of the rest of the discussion concerns the general philosophy of the act of charity: What are these 'wild accusations' that you allude to?


Well, if you did read up what happened in the end, TT Durai was sent to jail / bankrupted for a much smaller amount, vs what the public was made to believe. Abuse of public trust was the major issue, which the COC remedied by adding more rules to the IPCs. Essentially there were no rules in place to dictate what can be done and what cannot be, in black and white, till then.

Then onwards came the rules that out of every $ collected, not more than x amount can be spent for raising the funds. for NKF, they at times were spending 50 % of the collection for the cost of the events and shows to collect the donations.

And If I were to believe the media stories, TT Durai should have been in Jail for 10 years, not the 6 months. And the charges they could prove were very small, not declaring his directorship, and for about less than 50,000 $ of false invoices, not millions as was made to believe. The rest was all above the board, though morally wrong, including his Gold plated Taps !!

And at the height of his popularity, TT Durais' management was even a case study for some MBA courses, on 'how to run a charity profitably' .. and it all case crashing when the powers-be decided to not even touch NKF / TT Durai with even a 10 foot barge pole, when they realised the public was against the lavish spend etc.

In Fact, Mrs Goh was on record initially defending him .. if you were here at that time, you will know her famous words ;)

re: Wild accusations, well, I was not referring to you, but another posted who kept saying charities here are on a roll enjoying high life with public money .. never mind ..

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:35 am

ecureilx wrote: Well


So in summary, I'm right. I'd suggest you pick your arguments more carefully.

ecureilx wrote: re: Wild accusations, well, I was not referring to you, but another posted who kept saying charities here are on a roll enjoying high life with public money .. never mind ..


Well then address your post to this named person (even now you won't name them), rather than sowing general discord!

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:40 am

JR8 wrote:
ecureilx wrote: Well


So in summary, I'm right. I'd suggest you pick your arguments more carefully.

ecureilx wrote: re: Wild accusations, well, I was not referring to you, but another posted who kept saying charities here are on a roll enjoying high life with public money .. never mind ..


Well then address your post to this named person (even now you won't name them), rather than sowing general discord!


it was addressed to kookaburrah to be specific ..

'pologies for not making that clear .. after all kookaburrah started the thread and insists that the donations are scam.

Over and out ..


It's a Monday .. and the blues are getting into me I guess ..

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 3:50 pm

ecureilx wrote:'pologies for not making that clear .. after all kookaburrah started the thread and insists that the donations are scam.


I just re-read every post he made, and he didn't do that. This being Singapore, he could sue you for defamation and bankrupt you on that claim. You should apologize, or point out where he did this.


ecureilx wrote:I am still trying to figure out what ticked kookaburrah off .. maybe is a magnet for such 'illegal' fund raisers ??


He never called them illegal, did he? I just control-F'd through the whole post and only see you claiming he said this.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 4:55 pm

And just for you squirrel, I *tried* to donate today via these Singtel 'Red' points I have. It wouldn't let me. Somehow they're "out of stock" on $2 donations. How does that work? They don't want my money anymore? Well OK then.

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Postby katbh » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 5:01 pm

That is so funny!

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Postby kookaburrah » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 5:21 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:'pologies for not making that clear .. after all kookaburrah started the thread and insists that the donations are scam.


I just re-read every post he made, and he didn't do that. This being Singapore, he could sue you for defamation and bankrupt you on that claim. You should apologize, or point out where he did this.


ecureilx wrote:I am still trying to figure out what ticked kookaburrah off .. maybe is a magnet for such 'illegal' fund raisers ??


He never called them illegal, did he? I just control-F'd through the whole post and only see you claiming he said this.


Thanks zzm. Ecureilx, frankly I am perplexed - I keep saying I do not believe these fundraisers are illegal in any way. I have stressed, and will stress one more time, that I am sure they use the money in government approved ways.. You are running the risk of seeming either illiterate or obtuse.

What ticks me off are the swarms of fundraising children I get inflicted with every time I stick a foot out of the office. Clear enough?

I am actually quite curious about the look you mention - the i'm-free-with-my-wallet-come-get-my-money look. Is that a look you study for your charities?

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Calm down

Postby jonivefan » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 5:42 pm

Its pretty clear whats going on here. Seems some people don't like being swarmed by children (i guess its fashionable to call teens that nowadays to make them seem less credible?) to be put on 'the spot' made uncomfortable and socially coerced into donating.

No real need to get carried away and talk about whether the money collected gets spent correctly; doubt you'd find a country out there where there is less corruption that SG.

So this is another practice, perhaps unique to SG, that gripes OP. And to any charity organizers this should be an indication perhaps of how effective their methods really are vis-a-vis people like OP. As the situation stands, both parties are losers, one gets annoyed and the other doesn't get any donations.

What I dislike is how one side gets defensive and there is more than just innuendo in OP's posts about the situation being much better in other countries. That's totally uncalled for. Just try to keep this in mind. Having to be reminded by others reflects poorly on you.

"This is the essence of discrimination: formulating opinions about others not based on their individual merits, but rather on their membership in a group with assumed characteristics."

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Re: Calm down

Postby kookaburrah » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 7:03 pm

jonivefan wrote:Its pretty clear whats going on here. Seems some people don't like being swarmed by children (i guess its fashionable to call teens that nowadays to make them seem less credible?) to be put on 'the spot' made uncomfortable and socially coerced into donating.

No real need to get carried away and talk about whether the money collected gets spent correctly; doubt you'd find a country out there where there is less corruption that SG.

So this is another practice, perhaps unique to SG, that gripes OP. And to any charity organizers this should be an indication perhaps of how effective their methods really are vis-a-vis people like OP. As the situation stands, both parties are losers, one gets annoyed and the other doesn't get any donations.

What I dislike is how one side gets defensive and there is more than just innuendo in OP's posts about the situation being much better in other countries. That's totally uncalled for. Just try to keep this in mind. Having to be reminded by others reflects poorly on you.

"This is the essence of discrimination: formulating opinions about others not based on their individual merits, but rather on their membership in a group with assumed characteristics."


It's also pretty clear, from the clever use if parentheses and quotation marks which side of the fence you're sitting on, on this one jonive.

I will say, for the last time, that I did NOT ever state, directly or indirectly, that funds were being misspent. I omitted all references of the NKF for precisely that reason - no point in muddying the waters.

There was absolutely no innuendo about the practises in other countries either - although you're most welcome to wear the cap if it fits.

What I dislike is how posters come on the forum to lecture and snipe at others under the guise of a 'balanced and unbiased' stance. (See, I can do that too)

"Insert clever quote here"

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 8:09 pm

Frankly, kookaburrah, I'm with you. I also dislike the little buggers but feel sorry for them as well (they are forced by the schools so they can get ECA points) sometimes in clusters of 4 or 5 just outside of the MRT stations followed by additional clusters every 30m or so for half a block and they can see if you donated previously or not but yet they persist. I get aggravated as well. My standard answer is no cash as it's a card only.

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haha

Postby jonivefan » Tue, 18 Jun 2013 8:34 am

@sundaymorningstaple,

1. Last i checked, you were not OP.

2. My comments were clearly directed at OP & the charity people.

3. Was never my intention to appear neutral. If *you* could read between the lines, god forbid so could everyone else. You might notice however that I never bothered disparaging anyone or resort to name calling.

4. If you don't agree with something I said, you are welcome to post your differing views or point out the flaws in my post.

5. You might say its all a matter of semantics but I say there is a world of a difference between calling someone a bigot outright and pointing out some of the characteristics a person shares with one.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 18 Jun 2013 9:06 am

jonivefan, maybe it would be a good idea if you were to get a clue.

I stated very clearly what I agreed with kookaburrah on. Maybe you should learn to read for context instead of thinking someone might actually care about your opinion.


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