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renewal of ep , if i am going to be bankrupt soon

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Mad Scientist
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Re: renewal of ep , if i am going to be bankrupt soon

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 05 Jun 2013 6:44 pm

samir767 wrote:hi seniors,

i need your guidance/advice, since cannot afford lawyers . am on verge of bankrupcy all thks to the 2 casinos. i have some questions. appreciate your response.

1) my ep is gonna expired by end of this year. if i am declared bankrupt. will this affect my ep renewal status.

EP renewal has no relation to bankruptcy unless you have default on bankruptcy assignment which will in fact be an offence
Bankruptcy is not an offence per se i.e. for lack of better word you are poor in controlling your money
Please refer to this website to get more help http://www.ipto.gov.sg/


2) if say worst case , my ep is not able to be renewed , which means i will have to leave SG, but since i am serving bankrupcy i understand i cannot leave SG. wht will happen in such a case , will i be jailed. i cannot pay since no job , but cannot leave country as well.

Go to the website and seek help there
From my limited knowledge this is how it goes
1. You are declared bankrupt or you can find alternative to bankruptcy i.e Chap 13 instead of Chap 11 for eg.
2. If you are declared bankrupt you still require to pay off whatever the court determine the amount you to pay. The OA will ensure this.
3. You will not be jailed as you did not commit any offense.
4. As long as MOM renew EP which I do not see any clause or guideline to prevent you from being renewed just because you are a bankrupt.
5. You have not yet a bankrupt hence try to find alternative repayment schedule. As your debt is with the casino which is own by the Gahmen, they will have the responsibility to rehabilitate you. As long as a resolution is found then stick to it and your EP is not a problem
6. Problem gamblers came in all shape and form ; foreigners or locals.
7. If you are a foreigners there is a statute of limitation that is set i.e "show me the money or else you cannot enter the den"
8. Since you are on EP , your employment pass removes this but the casino holds your FIN number as an assurance.
9. You need to check if you are declared bankrupt which category will you fall into, chap.9 , 11 , 13 etc
10. There is a chance that the casino might bring forward to MOM if you fail to be proactive to repay what you owed.
11. If this happens, you will need to find a local guarantor and you can leave, Easy said than done. Alternatively which has happen before, you will be asked to provide your country of origin and this bankruptcy application will follow you to your home country of origin and the local lawyers will file an application to take effect on your bankruptcy
3) if say i leave SG as it is , will i be declared an offender. wi
ll i be able to enter sg a) as tourist. b) for work . say later.

You cannot leave as they will be holding your PP until this matter is settle in court
I doubt you can leave your country of origin let alone return for work or visit if you do a runner


4) if say i leave SG, will the bank authorities file legal case in my home country.
Oh, YES !!

pls help!! i am stressed. its not that i dont want to pay , but i.m not in condition to pay.


Look, it all boils down to whether they file a motion to bankrupt you or not.
Seek help from the website first.
You can do a runner and they can seek to recover the monies owed at your home country. It all depends on the amount and the accessibility to recover. Legal jurisprudence framework differs from one country to another.
The money that you defaulted has already covered by insurance and it has already written under sundry account i.e BAD DEBT
Consider carefully if you want to do a runner as it will bite you back
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:25 am

Wd40 wrote:Also I dont see any reason/logic why they should deny EP to person who is bankrupt.


There are a lot of reasons to deny EP ... and a few defy logic ..

To OP, I am not very sure if EP holders can be bankrupted. Of course, the Casino may engage debt collectors who may make your life miserable ..

yogaloungeforever wrote:unlike dubai, you won't be imprisoned. i doubt they can hold your passport and keep you in singapore if you are declared B. it's a diff'rent story for singaporean passport holders however.

as per sundaymorningstape, wait and hear what mad scientist has to say.


Again, from what I know, Bankruptcy and permission to leave and all applies to bankrupts - i.e PRs and SCs ... never knew that EP holders can be made Bankrupt by IPTO

If they can do it now, kudos for the government to fixing the loophole and letting EP holders go scot free while PRs / SCs are in deep shit if they run up too much debts ..

bro75 wrote:what is your line of work? there are industries that will not employ bankrupt persons due to sensitivity of their line of work.


non financial industries too may refuse to employ bankrupts, I know that for a fact as one too many job applications in MNCs have the question in black and white "are you a bankrupt or have you received any demand letter from any financial institution"


PS: read MS's reply after posting .. that's very illustrative ..

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Postby LongTimeHere » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:29 am

@ Samir767
Mad Scientist's answers are already in great detail. In my experience I have prevented somebody’s bankruptcy (against two banks) and also take another one to court with OA in tow. Here is my two cents:

Step 1: Stop panicking, you have erred in judgment not committed a crime. No one will throw you in jail unless you panic and commit one. The purpose of making you bankrupt is to recover money by taking over total control of your life.

Step 2: Have a clear repayment plan. You need to demonstrate to the authorities that you are indeed capable of managing your life and show a clear plan of action on how you are going to repay down to the last dollar that you earn. Show that you are down to the bare minimum sustenance and I mean really bare, it may be you will not be made a bankrupt at all. This is how my friend defended himself; he didn’t go to casino but took a lot of business risk. His repayment plan was down to the last detail and the authorities actually ‘advised’ the banks to give more time. The sum owed may be really huge to you but it is not to the casino and they will step back if ‘advised’ so.

Step 3: Be very nice to your employer and do all your work well and stay employed. If you lose a job you are unlikely to find one paying your current salary.
Everybody including the casino, authorities want you to succeed in repayment. Otherwise you are just another administrative headache and cost.

All the best my friend, we all err in judgement sometimes. Keep the Faith.

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:44 am

LongTimeHere wrote:Everybody including the casino, authorities want you to succeed in repayment. Otherwise you are just another administrative headache and cost.


The Casino/lender want you to settle and re-pay ? Well, I doubt it, unless the amount is in millions ..

Having been on the teetering edge, I believe .. most institutional creditors prefer to force you to bankruptcy or something similar to write off your loan in books, and then sell your loan as an Asset - cue Sub Prime Mortgage ..

Works fine for them as the bosses don't have to explain AR and return the fat bonuses they took for expanding the assets ..

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:59 am

ecureilx wrote:
LongTimeHere wrote:Everybody including the casino, authorities want you to succeed in repayment. Otherwise you are just another administrative headache and cost.


The Casino/lender want you to settle and re-pay ? Well, I doubt it, unless the amount is in millions ..

Having been on the teetering edge, I believe .. most institutional creditors prefer to force you to bankruptcy or something similar to write off your loan in books, and then sell your loan as an Asset - cue Sub Prime Mortgage ..

Works fine for them as the bosses don't have to explain AR and return the fat bonuses they took for expanding the assets ..


I see it was the other way actually.... surely if he's bankrupted the loan cannot be sold off.... it's a bad debt and incurrs a write down?

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 12:19 pm

PNGMK wrote:I see it was the other way actually.... surely if he's bankrupted the loan cannot be sold off.... it's a bad debt and incurrs a write down?


That's why the lenders don't want to bankrupt you I think ... they prefer to keep harassing / adding to your loan, than 'help you to clear it ..'

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 12:28 pm

ecureilx wrote:
PNGMK wrote:I see it was the other way actually.... surely if he's bankrupted the loan cannot be sold off.... it's a bad debt and incurrs a write down?


That's why the lenders don't want to bankrupt you I think ... they prefer to keep harassing / adding to your loan, than 'help you to clear it ..'


+1.

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Postby LongTimeHere » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 12:47 pm

Hi All,

My intention in writing wasn't to speculate how banks/casinos treat bad debts. Apologies if that is what it appeared to be.

I don't have any experience dealing with a casino. The OP seems to be keen to repay & the authorities do assist but there must be repayment plan.

It was based on real life experience in dealing with two banks and preventing the bankruptcy is the first place. Being adjudged bankrupt would leave a trail for the next six years and maybe much longer.

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 1:39 pm

LongTimeHere wrote: ... Being adjudged bankrupt would leave a trail for the next six years and maybe much longer.


of course, you can pay up everything and seek annulement .. it all goes away ..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 06 Jun 2013 2:16 pm

Yep. Don't know what the statute of limitations is, but I was bankrupted in 1973 as a result of being wiped out of business by Hurricane Agnes and a divorce 6 months later. It took right at 6.5 years to re-establish credit facilities in the US. I was bankrupted under the old laws which really busted you. I still carry membership of the two credit cards I got after that. Rarely use either of them, but the fact that both say member since 1979 is a constant reminder of what can happen without monetary prudence.

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Re: renewal of ep , if i am going to be bankrupt soon

Postby davidgan666 » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 1:30 pm

samir767 wrote:hi seniors,

i need your guidance/advice, since cannot afford lawyers . am on verge of bankrupcy all thks to the 2 casinos. i have some questions. appreciate your response.

1) my ep is gonna expired by end of this year. if i am declared bankrupt. will this affect my ep renewal status.

2) if say worst case , my ep is not able to be renewed , which means i will have to leave SG, but since i am serving bankrupcy i understand i cannot leave SG. wht will happen in such a case , will i be jailed. i cannot pay since no job , but cannot leave country as well.

3) if say i leave SG as it is , will i be declared an offender. will i be able to enter sg a) as tourist. b) for work . say later.

4) if say i leave SG, will the bank authorities file legal case in my home country.

pls help!! i am stressed. its not that i dont want to pay , but i.m not in condition to pay.



renewal of EP, you must be in working. no job no EP. They will reject without telling you reason.

one there is a filing of bankrupt, you may not leave sg. they will not allow to do so.

if you leave sg without paying, say good bye to sg forever, as once if you touch ground sg, they will not allow you to fly off. you are not in criminal but civil case, thus wont be in jail at all.


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