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NEED URGENT ADVICE - MISTREATED HELPER

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 11:54 am

Thanks morenangpinay. This I understand, but what I am missing is where do you see this illegal recruitment or any law violation of the agency for that matter.

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Postby morenangpinay » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 12:45 pm

you mean which part of the employment is there illegal recruitment? in my opinion, ofcourse im not a lawyer, the contract was not followed.ofcourse they cant run after the singapore agent but the philippine agent will have some penalty even the repatriation they also have some costs.

but i forgot to add, this is for the first time deployment..those coming from philippines directly. those who have been working in singapore under renewal is different. Also the embassy has a list of accredited agencies and the POEA website has a list of philippine agents accredited as well as their rating.

but for domestic workers there is an office in the Philippine embassy they can contact : Philippine Overseas Labor Office or POLO (Labor Section)
+65.6737.3977 Ext 105 to 108

On weekends and public holidays, Filipinos in distress who need urgent assistance may call the duty officer at telephone no. +65.9072.2797. The mobile number of OWWA for emergency calls during weekends is +65.9643.8160.

hope that would help in the future.

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 1:49 pm

x9200 wrote:Thanks morenangpinay. This I understand, but what I am missing is where do you see this illegal recruitment or any law violation of the agency for that matter.


in a nutshell, in Philippine Law, if you don't engage an agent, you are an illegal worker.

And if you are an agent, if you fail to do the proper paperwork, such as agency A, B, C and D approvals, medical, and submit a copy of the employment contract etc. etc. you are an illegal recruiter.

And if you see direct employment you are an illegal worker. And you may be note allowed to leave Singapore, heck you may even be charged for possible victim of Human Trafficking ..

If you don't believe me .. let me quote a personal experience .. a person found a direct-job, and when the organisation's HR received the final go ahead, the HR person calls and tells the candidate "you have to go back to PH, talk to Agent X, and Agent X must process your papers-and Agent X will take 1 month salary for the services"

When the candidate asked why they should pay the agent in PH who did nothing to secure the job, the answer was "we are referring to a memo from the Philippine Embassy, that deems employment of Filipinos without proper processing is illegal recruitment. To do proper legal employment, do engage a reputed Agency in Philippines"

And I know there is no exception .. and includes a top Filipino person here, heading some large organisation. He too had to get himself registered and processed, though sarcastically he stated that his POEA approval was delayed because the copy of the Employment Contract doesn't state specifically about Burial expenses, as if my salary and insurance is not enough to pay for my mortal remains to be repatriated.. my pocket money is enough to repatriate my remains many times over .. "

And I agree that FDWs are deemed to be lesser intelligent and should be watched for abuse, but for professionals and high earners to be forced to engage an Agent even when you found your own job ?

As for banning the agency in PH, yes, it happens, but I am yet to see anybody going to jail for life .. and there is a loophole in the law, that says unless specified otherwise, you can hold public office, and become a congressman or senator etc. And that's apart from the loophole that doesn't explicitly bar you from even managing an agency after conviction. So you can get your wife / sister / brother / son to reincarnate the business and all is well. Unlike in Singapore when you get banned, you cannot even work as as staff of a recruitment firm (SMS can clarify that if I am wrong on that .. )

morenangpinay: I am not picking on your, but you should go and talk to some agents and find out why there is legally authorised deduction from FDWs. 90% or more due to deductions of costs incurred in PH end.

And I had the not so funny situation of seeing a good friend's sister, who got a permanent job here and being denied permit to leave and work as the employment was perm, not contract, and POEA needs to see a Start/end date, and so and so and the ad-hoc agent couldn't compute a commission as he didn't know if this was for 1 month or 2 month or 4 month commission he should demand etc. etc... .. and the employer got fed up and told her the job offer is withdrawn as too many minor details were being picked apart in PH side.

Over and out ..

Do

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Postby morenangpinay » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 3:21 pm

i dont think you are picking on me ecureilx,just that we are coming from 2 different opinions. Yours is the illegal process when Im stating the legal process. why? the short answer to your long post is human trafficking.

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 4:12 pm

morenangpinay wrote:i dont think you are picking on me ecureilx,just that we are coming from 2 different opinions. Yours is the illegal process when Im stating the legal process. why? the short answer to your long post is human trafficking.


Ah, Human Trafficking.. the magic word ...

My point is, loading all ineffective processes and papers doesn't solve human trafficking .. it only helps keep the many agencies and numerous govt employees busy checking if the contract covers burial expenses etc ..

And the reality is, while those who legally get a job, and want to go abroad get picked apart, while those who go abroad to work in bars/pubs/ktvs don't seem to have any issue transiting the BI's Security Cordon :)

The intention is right, but execution is wrong .. I guess it is accepted in view of the enormous amount of revenue / salary money being generated ..

I am sure a streamlined and voluntary POEA registration option would reduce staff by about 75% at POEA/OWWA and also make many people in the PH Embassy who process 'exit permits' and the like jobless ..

And limit compulsory registration and clearance for FDW/Low paid workers ..

I am not kidding when 9 out of 10 Filipinos I know swear they got PR or LTVP or DP to avoid getting hassled by the Powers-be of BI, whenever they leave PH for work !!!

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Postby morenangpinay » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 4:59 pm

ecureilx wrote:
morenangpinay wrote:i dont think you are picking on me ecureilx,just that we are coming from 2 different opinions. Yours is the illegal process when Im stating the legal process. why? the short answer to your long post is human trafficking.


Ah, Human Trafficking.. the magic word ...

My point is, loading all ineffective processes and papers doesn't solve human trafficking .. it only helps keep the many agencies and numerous govt employees busy checking if the contract covers burial expenses etc ..

And the reality is, while those who legally get a job, and want to go abroad get picked apart, while those who go abroad to work in bars/pubs/ktvs don't seem to have any issue transiting the BI's Security Cordon :)

The intention is right, but execution is wrong .. I guess it is accepted in view of the enormous amount of revenue / salary money being generated ..

I am sure a streamlined and voluntary POEA registration option would reduce staff by about 75% at POEA/OWWA and also make many people in the PH Embassy who process 'exit permits' and the like jobless ..

And limit compulsory registration and clearance for FDW/Low paid workers ..

I am not kidding when 9 out of 10 Filipinos I know swear they got PR or LTVP or DP to avoid getting hassled by the Powers-be of BI, whenever they leave PH for work !!!


im sure everyone would be happy if Philippines were as streamlined as Singapore. unfortunately, there are many people who are very creative in getting out of the country.

And for your information if you obtain the OEC or home leave you will not be stopped by the Philippine immigration from traveling. If you dont have an OEC then you will have problems. If you do not have the capacity to travel or have the proper documents to show (such as papers of relatives living in the country where you are visiting), you will have problems exiting the Philippines. the immigration officers can stop you from traveling. and the OEC is applicable to every overseas filipino worker whether directly hired or not.

and why would you suggest to limit the registration of fdw? dont you know they are the most vulnerable worker because they live with the employer. so if you limit their registration, how do you propose to monitor them or have atleast their record?

the professionals can take care of themselves, even if they go direct hire, they have the capacity to help themselves. Unfortunately the domestic workers, mostly from provinces and most with high school education will have a difficult time. And many have gone home in coffins.

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 5:18 pm

morenangpinay wrote:and why would you suggest to limit the registration of fdw? dont you know they are the most vulnerable worker because they live with the employer. so if you limit their registration, how do you propose to monitor them or have atleast their record?



And limit compulsory registration and clearance for FDW/Low paid workers ..

>> I meant to say "Limit Compulsory Registration and Clearance TO Low Paid i.e. ensure FDWs and low paid workers are properly registered and protected, and taken care of .. Sorry if that came out worded wrongly.

Apologies.


And for your information if you obtain the OEC or home leave you will not be stopped by the Philippine immigration from traveling. If you dont have an OEC then you will have problems. If you do not have the capacity to travel or have the proper documents to show (such as papers of relatives living in the country where you are visiting), you will have problems exiting the Philippines. the immigration officers can stop you from traveling. and the OEC is applicable to every overseas filipino worker whether directly hired or not.


Ah, the OEC .. I still don't get the logic of a Citizen having to get a Overseas Employment Certificate to go back home or he will not be allowed to get back to work .. No worries :) Seems many are happy to spend the time to get it done before leaving ..

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Postby morenangpinay » Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:38 am

the oec is for getting out of the philippines, not getting in. since the work pass isnt recognized since it isnt a philippine document, they issue the oec and its again a way to document the workers overseas especially those who are directly hired. again for the human trafficking. you can still process the oec when you are in the philippines, it just takes a bit longer and more stressful.

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Postby bro75 » Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:58 pm

The strict Philippine rules is due to the fact that when the overseas workers get into trouble, their relatives complain to the politicians and politicians will complain about the "useless" embassy officials. A lot of effort and money is involved in fixing the problems and repatriating the troubled worker. These rules are supposed to minimize these by ensuring that only qualified/documented people are leaving the country and that the employers of these workers are responsible for their repatriation. It does not really work that well but without these rules it would be much worse.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 11 Jun 2013 1:24 pm

bro75 wrote:The strict Philippine rules is due to the fact that when the overseas workers get into trouble, their relatives complain to the politicians and politicians will complain about the "useless" embassy officials. A lot of effort and money is involved in fixing the problems and repatriating the troubled worker. These rules are supposed to minimize these by ensuring that only qualified/documented people are leaving the country and that the employers of these workers are responsible for their repatriation. It does not really work that well but without these rules it would be much worse.


It also serves to enrich the civil servants as well., Must not forget.

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 11 Jun 2013 2:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It also serves to enrich the civil servants as well., Must not forget.


Xactly .. and I doubt a few thousand Civil Servants will want to be jobless, if the whole process is simplified and those who insist on committing hari-kiri, let them be... and worry about the forgotten few - i.e. FDW, Cruise ship workers, sailors on tramp ships, and the lowly paid workers etc. etc.

And when I read about Filipinos being 'deployed' in war zones, in large numbers, including Kabul .. while those coming to safer working countries are stopped and held back and pressed to register for this and that. ........


well, let me extricate myself from this thread anyway ..

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Postby Steve1960 » Wed, 19 Jun 2013 3:57 pm

So is it possible to bring a Filipina into Singapore for a vacation, subsequently decide she would make the perfect maid and then approach an agency here to register her, paying all the necessary fees of course.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 19 Jun 2013 4:34 pm

Steve1960 wrote:So is it possible to bring a Filipina into Singapore for a vacation, subsequently decide she would make the perfect maid and then approach an agency here to register her, paying all the necessary fees of course.


Yes and yes .. but with stiffer rulings in Place, The Philippines Govt POEA and all will insist she go back and get a local agent and let the PH Agent do the PH part of the processing etc. etc. and ONLY then can she come here to work.

And ... if not, even if she gets the MOM Part of the paperwork settled, should she go back to PH, she will be held for being a possible victim of human trafficking !! And will be barred from leaving again ..

So, you want to do human trafficking ?? per se :D :D

PS: as per latest memo from PH Embassy to agents, Maid agencies here are warned to not process passes for those who came here on their own. SO no more of the 'arrive here and find a job' scene ...

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Postby Steve1960 » Thu, 20 Jun 2013 9:28 am

Oh well thats screwed my plans then but thanks for the information.

So, assuming the prospective maid will be in SG next week what should I do here prior to sending her back to the Philippines to appoint an agent?

If I get her to appoint an agent in Phil before next week would that help?

I am not trying to cut corners or cheat any government it is only that this particular girl is coming to visit for a vacation, knows my wife and daughter very well from Manila, my daughter took to her immediately and gets on with her really well.

So late last week the penny dropped and my wife and I both said 'she might make a good maid'. Having come to that conclusion I was hoping she would not have to go back to Phil.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 20 Jun 2013 9:51 am

Steve1960 wrote:Oh well thats screwed my plans then but thanks for the information.

So, assuming the prospective maid will be in SG next week what should I do here prior to sending her back to the Philippines to appoint an agent?

If I get her to appoint an agent in Phil before next week would that help?

I am not trying to cut corners or cheat any government it is only that this particular girl is coming to visit for a vacation, knows my wife and daughter very well from Manila, my daughter took to her immediately and gets on with her really well.

So late last week the penny dropped and my wife and I both said 'she might make a good maid'. Having come to that conclusion I was hoping she would not have to go back to Phil.


proper process, as recommended by PH Embassy, talk to your agent here, if you have been dealing with one, who can refer their counter part in PH .. and let the maid start the proper process from there ..


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