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Study: Most SGNs wntt help if they witness dom. violence

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 30 May 2013 7:24 pm

x9200 wrote:If this is the case I guess you should have no problem to provide some references for articles with reasonable numbers of citations?


This is based upon experience. Why do I need to provide lists of citations to state that I've been exposed to a recognized phenomenon?

Do you want me to go back digging into this dirty and unpleasant hinterland to simply prove to strangers that I am not, somehow, lying about a piece of research I say was carried out?

Do you believe that my suggestion that domestic violence occurs approximately 50%-50% between the genders is incorrect? Based upon what?

Ok. start here:
http://www.bpdcentral.com

Make sense, or still picking a fight?

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 30 May 2013 7:44 pm

JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:If this is the case I guess you should have no problem to provide some references for articles with reasonable numbers of citations?


This is based upon experience. Why do I need to provide lists of citations to state that I've been exposed to a recognized phenomenon?

Because you talk in this topic from like an expert position and the fact that you have been a victim or witness some instances of such DV does not make you any right on the subject. Just opposite, if this affects you personally you will be likely biased.


Do you want me to go back digging into this dirty and unpleasant hinterland to simply prove to strangers that I am not, somehow, lying about a piece of research I say was carried out?

No, I don't, I have no doubts your base is authentic and I am truly sorry for what you might have experienced but again, this is just your experience so probably you need a bit more to generalize.


Do you believe that my suggestion that domestic violence occurs approximately 50%-50% between the genders is incorrect? Based upon what?

Yes, I have some doubts. Based on the mentioned size / strength inequality for example; behaviour of both genders in public conflict situations; high bias in the violent crime committed towards gender unspecific targets etc. etc.


Ok. start here:
http://www.bpdcentral.com

Make sense, or still picking a fight?

It's not really anything concrete so if you could indulge me for a bit longer and point to a specific link....
And no, I don't want to fight, I just want a fair arguments supported by some reasoning. You've been making only statements so far with no reasoning.


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Postby katbh » Thu, 30 May 2013 8:38 pm

JR8. I am sorry but my professional training, and current work, is as a Criminologist. You are wholly incorrect. And I truly think you know this. Many of you here are taking a serious subject and 'banging' on for the sake of the argument. You are re-inforcing the same negative comments and attitudes that were criticised in the article referred to by AWARE upon which this thread is based.
However, as it clearly appears that JR8's comments are based on personal experience, I feel for any pain to he/she or a loved one. And he/she obviously takes this matter seriously - even if he/she needs to resort to suspect statements to make his/her point.
OF COURSE all cases must be taken seriously. No one is saying differently. And professionally and personally EACH case is important - whether male over female, female over male or same sex. Yes, it does occur all ways.
BUT lies lies and damn statistics in this case do not lie - by far far far more domestic violence (and I am talking physical here rather than non violent psychological) is perpetrated against women by men. The scales are very imbalanced.
In law and law enforcement, no differentiation should be made between the different gender roles in the abuse. However, this does NOT mean that the comments about proportions and statistics are incorrect.
It means that the statistical facts are as they are, but in every day practice, each case is taken seriously and acted upon appropriately - regardless of gender.
However, having said that, it is difficult some times for the police, to snap out of the practicalities and to look beyond the obvious or the cliched. This does not mean they do not know it occurs. It just means that it is rarer and often harder to detect and act on.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 30 May 2013 8:45 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_v ... gainst_men

This is just an excerpt:

A 32-nation study of university students "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this study, along with evidence from many other studies (Medeiros & Straus, 2007), indicates that the etiology of PV is mostly parallel for men and women."[18]
Straus and Gelles found that in couples reporting spousal violence, 27% of the time the man struck the first blow; in 24% of cases, the woman initiated the violence. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling. The results were the same even when the most severe episodes of violence were analyzed. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, and the data was the same.[19] The simple tally of physical acts is typically found to be similar in those studies that examine both directions, but some studies show that male violence may be more serious. Male violence may do more damage than female violence;[20] women are more likely to be injured and/or hospitalized. Wives are more likely to be killed by their husbands than the reverse (59% to 41% per Department of Justice study), and women in general are more likely to be killed by their spouses than by all other types of assailants combined.[21] From a data set of 6,200 cases of spousal abuse in the Detroit area of USA in 1978-79 found that men used weapons 25% of the time while female assailants used weapons 86% of the time, 74% of men sustained injury and of these 84% required medical care.[22]


Which actually supports my earlier estimation (prior to seeing this).

For a more in depth detailed look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Thu, 30 May 2013 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby katbh » Thu, 30 May 2013 8:47 pm

Wikipedia... are you serious .....
Its always sundaymorning staple...
'Domestic violence injury deaths as a proportion of all injury death is low (0.7% in 1991). However, the proportions of assaultive deaths in women due to domestic violence for the financial years 1990 and 1991 were 71% and 42% respectively, whereas the proportions for men were only 3% and 2.4%. Not only are deaths due to assault in women more likely to be as a result of domestic violence compared with men, but of all domestic violence deaths, women are highly over represented (90% of all domestic violence victims). The use of guns and knives as weapons of death in domestic violence, in a high proportion of cases, provides some support for countermeasures aimed at gun and knife control.'
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Postby x9200 » Thu, 30 May 2013 9:02 pm

SMS, but nobody questions the fact that women are violent against men in DV. This is about whether it is like on 50-50 bases which I doubt. I read the wikipedia pages earlier and the best you can conclude from there is that the subject is controversial and there is no clear evidence for ruling for or against.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 30 May 2013 9:10 pm

katbh wrote:Wikipedia... are you serious .....
Its always sundaymorning staple...
'Domestic violence injury deaths as a proportion of all injury death is low (0.7% in 1991). However, the proportions of assaultive deaths in women due to domestic violence for the financial years 1990 and 1991 were 71% and 42% respectively, whereas the proportions for men were only 3% and 2.4%. Not only are deaths due to assault in women more likely to be as a result of domestic violence compared with men, but of all domestic violence deaths, women are highly over represented (90% of all domestic violence victims). The use of guns and knives as weapons of death in domestic violence, in a high proportion of cases, provides some support for countermeasures aimed at gun and knife control.'


Let me try to stay as objective as I can but what you quoted above only refers to a selected type of the violence and may not be representative for all the types. The obvious point to raise is that while deaths are always reported it is clearly not the case for other types of violence.

Besides, it would be good if you could try not to make it personal. Everybody have her or his right to express opinions and I really don't see SMS doing anything wrong in this discussion.

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 30 May 2013 9:47 pm

JR8 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:The SPF will act on DV calls. Their effectiveness, and even more so the effectiveness of the courts - varies greatly with the individual officers and magistrates involved IMO.



I'd be interested to know what qualifies you to make such a statement.


Direct personal experience. Not wikipedia.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 31 May 2013 12:00 am

Katbh,

Your certainly like to gloss over the important bits that take the wind out of your sails....

Straus and Gelles found that in couples reporting spousal violence, 27% of the time the man struck the first blow; in 24% of cases, the woman initiated the violence.
. Would say that looks pretty nearly a 50:50 split wouldn't you?

But I have to admit, going back over your posts since you have been here, it would seem you tend to go off half cocked and post lots of misinformation or information which you see in your constrained viewpoint without the benefit of a large pool of data that we have at our disposal (you have it as well if you would but use the search engine). But that's just you, and we all understand that. It's okay, but we often need to put in the disclaimer as you well know.

This discussion wasn't about the severity of the abuse but whether it happens in relatively equal numbers, which I still maintain is true.

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Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 31 May 2013 7:56 am

One really needs to ascertain that one's help is useful, wanted and needed before you jump in, not because in your own mind, you think your intervention will improve the situation. Too many do-gooders who think they are doing others a favor, when it is the opposite. It is important to learn to mind your own biz and respect the other person's space to solve their own issues. A lot of times the outsiders do not know the full story.

I came out of a laundromat and found a busybody standing next to my car threathening she would have called the police. I was in the shop for < 10 minutes and my 6ish kids were in the car. They were visible from inside the shop and a few yards away. They were too tired and cranky to go in there with me.........more meltdowns.

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Postby katbh » Fri, 31 May 2013 9:49 am

+1
katbh

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Postby Sergei82 » Fri, 31 May 2013 10:29 am

earthfriendly wrote:One really needs to ascertain that one's help is useful, wanted and needed before you jump in, not because in your own mind, you think your intervention will improve the situation. Too many do-gooders who think they are doing others a favor, when it is the opposite. It is important to learn to mind your own biz and respect the other person's space to solve their own issues. A lot of times the outsiders do not know the full story.

I actually was trying to say the same. Maybe, I explained that somewhat incorrectly, that is why katbh and Hannieroo turned against me.

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Postby Hannieroo » Fri, 31 May 2013 12:10 pm

Turned against you? Differing opinions is all.

I'd love to debate it more but I need to go beat my husband, children and dog. Lightly.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 31 May 2013 12:22 pm

[quote="x9200"]

Because you talk in this topic from like an expert position and the fact that you have been a victim or witness some instances of such DV does not make you any right on the subject. Just opposite, if this affects you personally you will be likely biased.


Hi X9. Expert? I couldn't help but chuckle at that :). I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm more saying this is something many people haven't heard of, and of the people who have faced it most don't know what it is, and are just left bewildered by it.

I'm not sure how having experience of something makes one biased... but hey ho!


No, I don't, I have no doubts your base is authentic and I am truly sorry for what you might have experienced but again, this is just your experience so probably you need a bit more to generalize.


I'm not speaking simply of my personal experience. I studied it in quite considerable depth, books, scientific papers, an associated newsgroup, and so on.


Yes, I have some doubts. Based on the mentioned size / strength inequality for example; behaviour of both genders in public conflict situations; high bias in the violent crime committed towards gender unspecific targets etc. etc.


When you're facing a hysterical woman with a knife in her hand, size and strength matter less than you might think. What are you going to do, give your beloved wife a KO punch or something... 'I mean she is only kidding isn't she?'

It's not really anything concrete so if you could indulge me for a bit longer and point to a specific link....
And no, I don't want to fight, I just want a fair arguments supported by some reasoning. You've been making only statements so far with no reasoning.


I'm rather losing track of the precise matter being discussed now. If you want to see something 'official' regarding personality disorders, Yahoo seemed to be the place to go (under the Health section) back in the day.

But you can also Google on 'DSM-5 personality disorder' (or DSM IV, or DSM V). In fact I'd suggest that as useful reading for many people. For me it helped explain a few 'complicated characters' that had previously crossed my path in life, and it completely changed how I perceive personality/behaviour :)

ps. DSM-5 being the 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, version 5', which are the 'official' criteria used by psychiatrists to diagnose the various medically recognised personality disorders.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 31 May 2013 12:48 pm

JR8 wrote:When you're facing a hysterical woman with a knife in her hand, size and strength matter less than you might think. What are you going to do, give your beloved wife a KO punch or something... 'I mean she is only kidding isn't she?'.


:o The Thai female's penchant for dismembering their male partners springs to mind. Or from a western perspective, doing a Lorena Bobbitt to their partner.


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