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Physician in US considering Move to Singapore

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 4:50 am

FATCA adds stuff but it really isn't that much different than reporting requirements that already exist. I own/owned three companies in three countries, each with bank accounts and assets. All of this has to be reported to the IRS each year, along with P&L, balance sheet, and cash flow.

It's a pain in the ass to do, and I suppose it could be considered intrusive. However, if it catches the cheating, lying, f*cks who avoid paying taxes by shifting funds all over the place (why does Mitt Romney come to mind), then I really don't have a problem with it.

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Postby Sooner8 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 6:53 am

Strong Eagle wrote:It's a pain in the ass to do, and I suppose it could be considered intrusive. However, if it catches the cheating, lying, f*cks who avoid paying taxes by shifting funds all over the place (why does Mitt Romney come to mind), then I really don't have a problem with it.


From what I have read, the optimistic estimate for FATCA is that it will bring in around $9 billion over 10 years or $900 million on average per year.

Given US federal government's astonishing deficits, the expected $900 million from FATCA is not even a drop in the bucket. Assuming common sense eventually prevails and the US reduces its profligate spending and actually reduces its deficit, FATCA revenues will still be a drop in the bucket.

So, why would the US government go through all the enormous trouble of implementing FATCA, by coercing other sovereign nations, if it's going to bring in such a meager amount of money?

It's about control.
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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 11:34 am

Sooner8 wrote:It's about control.


Maybe... but more likely it's about catching lying, cheating, f*cks.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 11:52 am

Maybe every body in DC should just look in the mirror first.

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Postby CitizenOfTheWorld » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 1:33 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Sooner8 wrote:It's about control.


Maybe... but more likely it's about catching lying, cheating, f*cks.


FATCA will cost far more to implement than it will ever bring in. It will force (or try to force) foreign banks to be unpaid IRS agents. From what I've read, it has become much harder for many American expats to open a foreign bank account, (so many banks just can't be bothered with the IRS reporting requirements) even those who happily report every penny and pay their protection money to the most powerful mob on the planet, AKA the United States federal government.

P.S. I never advise people to "cheat" on their taxes, even though I'm of the opinion that taxation is theft pure and simple. The power of the USG to enforce its will all over the globe is just too great and so you are better off just paying the aforementioned protection money. However, the 'lying cheating f*cks' are the ones who think they are entitled to 40% of your hard earned money. Not the people who think they are entitled to all the fruits of their labor.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 3:26 pm

Citizen, you said it much better than I could, but my sentiments exactly. From one who work in DC for a number of years.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 4:24 pm

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:It seems to me that non-democratic Singapore is in many ways more free than the democratic United States. (correct me if you think I'm wrong.)

You're wrong. I'm not quite left or right wing freedom hippy or libertarian extremist, but I feel quite uncomfortable about many aspects of Singapore. I never thought it would bother me before I came here, and I was vaguely aware of a lot of them.

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:
A lot of the aforementioned disadvantages to Singapore are ones I would face if I moved to New York City or Chicago: very expensive housing, lack of car, dependence on public transport, extreme weather (just substitute monsoons for hurricanes and snow storms)


Wrong again. I spent 20+ years in chicago. Its housing costs are a *fraction* of the costs in Singapore. Cars, even more so.

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:In all honesty, I was in Singapore for barely a week. I liked it, but there is no way to be sure until I live there, and by then it will be too late. Still, how many members of the SE board had a chance to live in Singapore before actually moving there? It seems, most of you just had to make your choice and take your chances same as me.

You are right on this. I only visited a half dozen times or so, and spent a large portion of my time in Hong Kong. For some really stupid reason, I just assumed it would be "just like Hong Kong but hotter more often". Dead wrong.

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:Thanks again for all the info and...
P.S. I'm curious if anyone here has (or knows someone who has) obtained full Singaporean citizenship and passport from the US/Western Europe/Australia. If so, what was the expatriation like emotionally?


Really, don't even bother thinking about this until you've lived here a while. You may not even be able to become a citizen even if you want to. Singapore doesn't want foreigners right now unless they're exceptional and young with families. Also expect Uncle Sam to charge you a huge exit tax, especially if you have sufficient investments already to live in Singapore off of the capital gains and dividends.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 4:30 pm

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
Sooner8 wrote:It's about control.


Maybe... but more likely it's about catching lying, cheating, f*cks.


FATCA will cost far more to implement than it will ever bring in. It will force (or try to force) foreign banks to be unpaid IRS agents. From what I've read, it has become much harder for many American expats to open a foreign bank account, (so many banks just can't be bothered with the IRS reporting requirements) even those who happily report every penny and pay their protection money to the most powerful mob on the planet, AKA the United States federal government.

P.S. I never advise people to "cheat" on their taxes, even though I'm of the opinion that taxation is theft pure and simple. The power of the USG to enforce its will all over the globe is just too great and so you are better off just paying the aforementioned protection money. However, the 'lying cheating f*cks' are the ones who think they are entitled to 40% of your hard earned money. Not the people who think they are entitled to all the fruits of their labor.


I do agree completely with all of this and understand how you feel. After being here for a couple years now though, I would rather remain an American or return home than go down the path you're contemplating. Maybe you'll really enjoy Singapore though. I do hope you stick around the forums if you move here and keep us updated.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 4:36 pm

Sooner8 wrote:
Brah wrote:

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:It seems to me that non-democratic Singapore is in many ways more free than the democratic United States. (correct me if you think I'm wrong.)

I've been here a few years and I think you're wrong.



Democracy is the dictatorship of the mob. And the US is one election away from just that. Already, assaults on 1st and 2nd amendment rights are a daily happening. 1st Amendment works only if you agree with the mob and 2nd Amendment being assaulted to impose the tyranny of the mob.

The numbers of US citizens (expats or otherwise) going through citizen renunciation is increasing, driven in part by the looming FATCA overreach of the IRS.

My understanding of SIN politics is that it is essentially a one-party benevolence. But, reading this forum has proved valuable in finding out that an opposition is forming driven perhaps by xenophobia. But, at least the govt wants to keep SIN as a shining business beacon. The US has willfully, with its very large no to low-info voters (with attendant voter fraud), has taken the path to class warfare.


Singapore is benevolent for the benefit of a well connected elite, and coincidently some of those policies are beneficial to varies parts of the population. Just don't make the incorrect assumption those policies are intended for *your* benefit. :) The pro-business friendliness is slowly going out the window too.

I'm not sure what 1st amendment assault you're referring to, but the US citizen's rights to Freedom of Speech is still much stronger than almost anywhere else in the world.

A lot of Americans are renouncing. I would consider being one of the if I was in the right situation overseas. But Singapore is not the right place or situation. Besides the weather and emotional doldrums of the place, costs are outrageous and foreigner backlash is significant enough that it is mildly uncomfortable at times.

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Postby Sooner8 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 6:46 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Maybe every body in DC should just look in the mirror first.


Word. Solyandra, and its ilk, anyone including that Bridge to Nowhere? :x
‘While at Raffles, why not visit Singapore?' Indeed.

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Postby Sooner8 » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 6:56 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Singapore is benevolent for the benefit of a well connected elite, and coincidently some of those policies are beneficial to varies parts of the population. Just don't make the incorrect assumption those policies are intended for *your* benefit. :) The pro-business friendliness is slowly going out the window too.


I am glad to be on this forum. Learning a lot which was my intent in the first place.

zzm9980 wrote:I'm not sure what 1st amendment assault you're referring to, but the US citizen's rights to Freedom of Speech is still much stronger than almost anywhere else in the world.


Yes, on the face of it that is true. Try saying something that goes against the grain of PC types, and see where it lands you. You'll be labelled "racists" in a NY minute and then it be labelled as a hate crime.

zzm9980 wrote:A lot of Americans are renouncing. I would consider being one of the if I was in the right situation overseas. But Singapore is not the right place or situation. Besides the weather and emotional doldrums of the place, costs are outrageous and foreigner backlash is significant enough that it is mildly uncomfortable at times.


Thank you. Noted.
‘While at Raffles, why not visit Singapore?' Indeed.

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Postby Brah » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 9:49 pm

zzm9980 wrote:I do agree completely with all of this and understand how you feel. After being here for a couple years now though, I would rather remain an American or return home than go down the path you're contemplating. Maybe you'll really enjoy Singapore though. I do hope you stick around the forums if you move here and keep us updated.

I thought to say something similar the other day. We do have legitimate things to gripe about, and this forum can become a gripe-fest and over-do it sometimes. If it was so bad we wouldn't be here. However, many of us are biding our time until things improve elsewhere, it's kind of employment amnesty. If things were to improve here and it were cheaper it could certainly be considered for longer term. Ain't gonna happen though, not any time soon.

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Postby CitizenOfTheWorld » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 10:29 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:It seems to me that non-democratic Singapore is in many ways more free than the democratic United States. (correct me if you think I'm wrong.)

You're wrong. I'm not quite left or right wing freedom hippy or libertarian extremist, but I feel quite uncomfortable about many aspects of Singapore. I never thought it would bother me before I came here, and I was vaguely aware of a lot of them.


What in particular bothers you in Singapore regarding loss of freedom? The total surveillance? Police brutality? Deos it bother every expat or do some just not care about it? Please explain.

zzm9980 wrote:
CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:
A lot of the aforementioned disadvantages to Singapore are ones I would face if I moved to New York City or Chicago: very expensive housing, lack of car, dependence on public transport, extreme weather (just substitute monsoons for hurricanes and snow storms)


Wrong again. I spent 20+ years in chicago. Its housing costs are a *fraction* of the costs in Singapore. Cars, even more so.


Ok, maybe Chicago. In NYC a studio will run you 1600 USD a month if you are willing to commute from Brooklyn. About 2000 USD if you're looking for the 'cheapest' part of Manhattan. If you want a one BR, add 600-1000 per month. With public transport, I really wont bother getting a car at all, so non-issue.[/quote]

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:In all honesty, I was in Singapore for barely a week. I liked it, but there is no way to be sure until I live there, and by then it will be too late. Still, how many members of the SE board had a chance to live in Singapore before actually moving there? It seems, most of you just had to make your choice and take your chances same as me.

zzm9980 wrote:You are right on this. I only visited a half dozen times or so, and spent a large portion of my time in Hong Kong. For some really stupid reason, I just assumed it would be "just like Hong Kong but hotter more often". Dead wrong.


Again, what bothers you most? I agree, Hong Kong is simply beautiful with the hills and the view of the skyline. Sing just doesn't have that.

zzm9980 wrote:
CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:Thanks again for all the info and...
P.S. I'm curious if anyone here has (or knows someone who has) obtained full Singaporean citizenship and passport from the US/Western Europe/Australia. If so, what was the expatriation like emotionally?


Really, don't even bother thinking about this until you've lived here a while. You may not even be able to become a citizen even if you want to. Singapore doesn't want foreigners right now unless they're exceptional and young with families. Also expect Uncle Sam to charge you a huge exit tax, especially if you have sufficient investments already to live in Singapore off of the capital gains and dividends.


I can't speak to that. I had figured fully trained physicians would still be wanted, but I don't know. As for exit taxes, luckily, Uncle Sam can't tax what I don't have.

zzm9980 wrote:I do hope you stick around the forums if you move here and keep us updated.


Thanks for that. I may stick around just to keep everyone updated on developments stateside. Seriously, I appreciate the board's welcoming attitude and exchange of info and honest advice.
"Democracy is also a form of religion. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses."

H.L. Mencken

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Postby Brah » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 10:57 pm

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:Again, what bothers you most? I agree, Hong Kong is simply beautiful with the hills and the view of the skyline. Sing just doesn't have that.


Doesn't have the smog of HK either.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 03 Jun 2013 11:15 pm

CitizenOfTheWorld wrote:entitled to 40%


Where did you get that number?


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