phillipines - taiwan row

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ecureilx
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Post by ecureilx » Wed, 29 May 2013 1:57 pm

Steve1960 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:Isn't this more about gas and oil than fish though?
You have fishermen going there often enough uncontested and that would qualify for "occupation" and hence will be considered part of the fishermen's country's territory.
Totally agree and that is my point, underneath the fishing dispute is the desire to own the rights to the gas and oil. It would be nice to think the respective governments care about over fishing but I somehow doubt it.
Fish ? what fish again ?? :D

From what I know, the area is one of the highly fished parts of the world, and if I remember correctly, a lot of Large Taiwan / Chinese Fishing vessels do employ choppers to spot Tuna schools ... and go for upto 5 months at a go transferring the catch to factory vessels operating in sea.

Yes, Fishing does rake in a lot of money... and I wouldn't be surprised if the respective govts did worry about Fishing ..

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Post by nakatago » Wed, 29 May 2013 3:25 pm

Steve1960 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:Isn't this more about gas and oil than fish though?
You have fishermen going there often enough uncontested and that would qualify for "occupation" and hence will be considered part of the fishermen's country's territory.
Totally agree and that is my point, underneath the fishing dispute is the desire to own the rights to the gas and oil. It would be nice to think the respective governments care about over fishing but I somehow doubt it.
As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 29 May 2013 3:36 pm

nakatago wrote: As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
Shipping lanes will remain open. Closing those would hurt China more than anyone else. They need to keep their supply of inbound oil and outbound manufactured crap going as efficiently as possible.

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Post by nakatago » Wed, 29 May 2013 3:39 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote: As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
Shipping lanes will remain open. Closing those would hurt China more than anyone else. They need to keep their supply of inbound oil and outbound manufactured crap going as efficiently as possible.
But China will control them. Lotsa ramifications.
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by ecureilx » Wed, 29 May 2013 4:02 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote: As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
Shipping lanes will remain open. Closing those would hurt China more than anyone else. They need to keep their supply of inbound oil and outbound manufactured crap going as efficiently as possible.
being a history buff, and having read about China's adventures in the region, I would safely be behind Nakatago on this .. They have nothing to loose by enforcing their rule over the wide vast ocean. And if China Wants it, they get it .. read up on the Indo China war and there was an analysis, as to why China stopped where they stopped, than grab more land in India - because they wanted only those parts, and while they didn't give a damn and took it, they weren't too greedy. Same for their limited skirmishes, and their latest adventure into Ladakh.

In the South China Sea context, I get the feeling 'they want it' .. end of story, and nobody can stop them when they decide to 'do it'

It may hurt China, but, there is a big possibility they may risk it and close it

For oil, well, China has been progressing on the Silk Route pipeline.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 3&cid=1502

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 29 May 2013 6:09 pm

nakatago wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote: As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
Shipping lanes will remain open. Closing those would hurt China more than anyone else. They need to keep their supply of inbound oil and outbound manufactured crap going as efficiently as possible.
But China will control them. Lotsa ramifications.
Mostly just for the fishermen, oil exploration, and tariff attempts by their neighbors in the region.

With the exceptions of fishing rights and oil exploration, I trust China to keep it fair and open at least as much of not more so than the current status quo.

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 29 May 2013 6:14 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote: As a tangent, if China successfully claims the whole of the South China Sea, say goodbye to international waters and shipping lanes.
Shipping lanes will remain open. Closing those would hurt China more than anyone else. They need to keep their supply of inbound oil and outbound manufactured crap going as efficiently as possible.
being a history buff, and having read about China's adventures in the region, I would safely be behind Nakatago on this .. They have nothing to loose by enforcing their rule over the wide vast ocean. And if China Wants it, they get it .. read up on the Indo China war and there was an analysis, as to why China stopped where they stopped, than grab more land in India - because they wanted only those parts, and while they didn't give a damn and took it, they weren't too greedy. Same for their limited skirmishes, and their latest adventure into Ladakh.

In the South China Sea context, I get the feeling 'they want it' .. end of story, and nobody can stop them when they decide to 'do it'

It may hurt China, but, there is a big possibility they may risk it and close it

For oil, well, China has been progressing on the Silk Route pipeline.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 3&cid=1502
Read Kissinger's 'On China'. Pretty good insight and analysis too, since it includes a lot of the behind the scenes China/US diplomatic communications at the time too.

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Post by ecureilx » Thu, 30 May 2013 9:55 am

zzm9980 wrote: Read Kissinger's 'On China'. Pretty good insight and analysis too, since it includes a lot of the behind the scenes China/US diplomatic communications at the time too.
Love the book .. by reading the preview.

Just reserved a copy in the NLB ..

Thanks :)

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