phillipines - taiwan row

Wd40 · Post by **Wd40** » Thu, 23 May 2013 8:25 pm

Have been following this story on Channel New Asia about the killing of Taiwanese fisherman by Philippine coast guard.

Did some googling online and found these 2 articles that kind of makes it clear what the beef of the matter is:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennin ... -off-easy/

http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/05 ... rs-killing

zzm9980 · Post by **zzm9980** » Thu, 23 May 2013 9:12 pm

The South China and East China seas are rife with territorial claim disputes by pretty much everyone against everyone else. Every country in the neighborhood has to wave their d!ck around as widely as they can to make sure people take them seriously. It seems to be a bit like copyright and trademark enforcement; if you're not seen to aggressively enforce your claims you'll be found to have yielded them by default.

The situation between Hong Kong and the Philippines over that hostage incident a few years back doesn't help things either. My impression is that PI are seen as being unable to keep their own police/coast guard in check.

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Thu, 23 May 2013 10:10 pm

zzm9980 wrote:The South China and East China seas are rife with territorial claim disputes by pretty much everyone against everyone else. Every country in the neighborhood has to wave their d!ck around as widely as they can to make sure people take them seriously. It seems to be a bit like copyright and trademark enforcement; if you're not seen to aggressively enforce your claims you'll be found to have yielded them by default.

The situation between Hong Kong and the Philippines over that hostage incident a few years back doesn't help things either. My impression is that PI are seen as being unable to keep their own police/coast guard in check.

About the territorial claims .. a tidbit: the Batanes Islands are closer to Taiwan than to Mainland Philippines - Luzon.

And if not for the then US Listening stations and LORAN stations, I am convinced that Taiwan would have taken ownership of them long time ago..

Damn, when I looked across the sea in Batanes, there was nothing except miles and miles of ocean ..

Wd40 · Post by **Wd40** » Fri, 24 May 2013 12:43 am

Just had a close look at the map of Philippines. Wow, so many islands. I thought Indonesia was a many island country, Philippines beats that.

I can imagine what a nightmare it is for kids in the geography class.

zzm9980 · Post by **zzm9980** » Fri, 24 May 2013 9:51 am

ecureilx wrote: About the territorial claims .. a tidbit: the Batanes Islands are closer to Taiwan than to Mainland Philippines - Luzon.

About the territorial claims .. a tidbit: Proximity to a "mainland" means jack shit.

Not sure if you were implying something or this was just a random squirrel anecdote that adds nothing to the conversation and potentially confuses it.

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Fri, 24 May 2013 11:55 am

zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote: About the territorial claims .. a tidbit: the Batanes Islands are closer to Taiwan than to Mainland Philippines - Luzon.
About the territorial claims .. a tidbit: Proximity to a "mainland" means jack shit.

Not sure if you were implying something or this was just a random squirrel anecdote that adds nothing to the conversation and potentially confuses it.

do look up the location / distance of Batanes Island in relation to Luzon and Taiwan !!!

No, Batanes is NOT a disputed territory, but .. as I was clarifying, some territorial disputes aren't so cut and dried ..

Then again, China is claiming the whole of South China sea as their territory ..... no comments on that ..

PS: no hidden Agenda or insinuation

zzm9980 · Post by **zzm9980** » Sun, 26 May 2013 10:30 am

Just read this nice summary of the South China Sea and East China Sea disputes:

http://qz.com/87602

Off-topic, I also just recently found out about that news site. It's really nice, and formatted very nicely for tablets.

morenangpinay · Post by **morenangpinay** » Wed, 29 May 2013 11:20 am

the investigation is still ongoing. Hopefully the result will come out sooner. I want to point out though that Taiwan is a province of China and it is not recognized by the Philippines as a country. Also taiwan is not a member of UNCLOS. In my opinion Taiwan is using the issue to force Philippines to agree to allow Taiwanese fishermen to fish in the waters. they have been poaching even endangered species in Philippine waters.

a good background is this writeup http://raissarobles.com/2013/05/25/why- ... -corridor/

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Wed, 29 May 2013 11:36 am

morenangpinay wrote: ... I want to point out though that Taiwan is a province of China and it is not recognized by the Philippines as a country....

And to wade in and hoping not to get wet ..

Interesting that you should say Taiwan is a Province of China

And .. well, it did help a lot when PH deported a bunch of Taiwanese to Mainland China

And an academic question. When the Thousands of Filipinos go to Taiwan for work, do they get the work visa issued in PRC or Taiwan ?

morenangpinay · Post by **morenangpinay** » Wed, 29 May 2013 12:24 pm

i mean diplomatic protocols. Philippines adopted the One-China policy which recognizes Taiwan as a province of China. So in effect, if Philippines agrees to the fishing agreement being imposed by Taiwan, there is a possibility that China will assert their right. You see, the situation is not easy. Add to that, Taiwanese/china fishing vessels are commercial. there have been instances of overfishing. I recall a few months ago, philippines imposed a no fishing period over disputed areas but the china side did not stop fishing.

Steve1960 · Post by **Steve1960** » Wed, 29 May 2013 12:42 pm

Isn't this more about gas and oil than fish though?

Post by **nakatago** » Wed, 29 May 2013 12:43 pm

Steve1960 wrote:Isn't this more about gas and oil than fish though?

You have fishermen going there often enough uncontested and that would qualify for "occupation" and hence will be considered part of the fishermen's country's territory.

bgd · Post by **bgd** » Wed, 29 May 2013 12:48 pm

Wd40 wrote:Just had a close look at the map of Philippines. Wow, so many islands. I thought Indonesia was a many island country, Philippines beats that.

I can imagine what a nightmare it is for kids in the geography class.

7,107. There is (was?) a Philipines restaurant in Sg with that name.

Indonesia has about 17,000.

Steve1960 · Post by **Steve1960** » Wed, 29 May 2013 1:05 pm

nakatago wrote:
Steve1960 wrote:Isn't this more about gas and oil than fish though?
You have fishermen going there often enough uncontested and that would qualify for "occupation" and hence will be considered part of the fishermen's country's territory.

Totally agree and that is my point, underneath the fishing dispute is the desire to own the rights to the gas and oil. It would be nice to think the respective governments care about over fishing but I somehow doubt it.

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Wed, 29 May 2013 1:51 pm

morenangpinay wrote:i mean diplomatic protocols. Philippines adopted the One-China policy which recognizes Taiwan as a province of China. So in effect, if Philippines agrees to the fishing agreement being imposed by Taiwan, there is a possibility that China will assert their right. You see, the situation is not easy. Add to that, Taiwanese/china fishing vessels are commercial. there have been instances of overfishing. I recall a few months ago, philippines imposed a no fishing period over disputed areas but the china side did not stop fishing.

Academically speaking, in legal speak / protocol etc .. yes, you are right, and so is the PH govt ..

if I am Taiwan, that will make me pretty happy .. when somebody insists I am a province of China !!!

Again, in Protocols, legal speak, diplomatic speak .. it is perfectly right.

And I am still miffed about the PH govt deporting Taiwanese Nationals to PRC, and acting like it was the perfectly right thing to do

if PH is refusing to accept the existance of Taiwan, they should cut all diplomatic ties, overt or not, and recall all the nationals who live and work in Taiwan ..

not trying to stir stuff up .. but it sill doesn't add up, in my opinion

Over and out ..

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