Credit Card Debts

[ecureilx]

...Are you sure, not paying credit card bills can lead to arrest? Any links?...

Then again, don't forget that one too many card company can get personal, in your own home town, if you had penned it down .. no holds barred there ..

So you commit a criminal offense by travelling overseas. Not quite sure if this counts if you leave before you're declared a bankrupt though. Probably.

That applies for PRs/SCs .. doesn't apply for Foreigners. and that's what I know of ...

And I still don't know how bankruptcy works for nonSC/nonPR (or is it one of the previlege NOT being PR/SC that you can scoot off without worrying about debts ??

So, what is being said, basically, is like 377A. The provision is on the books, but whether or not it is enforced would be up to the authorities.

+1 !!!!!

And ..

Definitely not spinning a tale. Happens all too often (do a search of this board to see what I mean). What is "Not likely" is theft of his card! Hopefully he gets nailed if he IS spinning a tale about the theft.

And if the card was stolen, I am sure you can dispute the purchase, if they were delivered in Nigeria.. unless of course the purchases were delivered to the card holders home address without his knowledge though

[zzm9980]

So you commit a criminal offense by travelling overseas. Not quite sure if this counts if you leave before you're declared a bankrupt though. Probably.

That applies for PRs/SCs .. doesn't apply for Foreigners. and that's what I know of ...

Seems a major oversight then. Any links to that?

[Wd40]

Interesting points. Bottomline its not a nice thing to be in the credit card debt trap. I am convinience user and have made sure, that I have only 2 cards. One is my DBS Esso card only for petrol and the stan chart platinum for everything else.

Ecureilx, AFAIK, from what I read on credit card brochures etc, for credit card fraud, you wont be held responsible for transactions that have happened after you call the bank and cancel the card, but if didnt call the bank to cancel the card, you are still liable for the transactions on it.


http://www.standardchartered.com.sg/per ... n-card/en/

Am I liable for charges to my card if it is lost or stolen?
You (or your company if it is a corporate card) are liable for all unauthorised card transactions effected before you notify us of loss, theft or disclosure. Please consult our Card Members Agreement for full details on your responsibilities and ours.

[x9200]

Oh so this is what I found. Most likely the banks will force you into bankruptcy, but not prosecute you since it is a civil manner not a criminal one.

For general case this depends on the circumstances.
If he has taken the CC with intention not to pay the debts, this is a criminal offense. If the OP is truthful about what he said here then this civil, but if, hypothetically, he would obtained a number of CCs, spent close to their limits and just disappeared it would like be seen as criminal (the fraud).

[Wd40]

Oh so this is what I found. Most likely the banks will force you into bankruptcy, but not prosecute you since it is a civil manner not a criminal one.

For general case this depends on the circumstances.
If he has taken the CC with intention not to pay the debts, this is a criminal offense. If the OP is truthful about what he said here then this civil, but if, hypothetically, he would obtained a number of CCs, spent close to their limits and just disappeared it would like be seen as criminal (the fraud).

How do you seperate truthful and fraudster?
Even in case of OP, lets assume for the moment that indeed someone stole his card and spent it away, still isnt the OP responsible for it?
Credit Card is just like cash. If someone stole your cash and went and spent it away, what can be done?

As far as the bank is concerned he still owes them money and they dont care if he spent it or someone else.
Ofcourse the OP can file a complaint with police and if the thief is found, OP gets back his money if not, OP is at a loss. Bank has nothing to do with it

[x9200]

From the bank perspective it does not matter unless they want to see him behind the bars.

[ecureilx]

Seems a major oversight then. Any links to that?

Cannot find it off-hand, need to look it up, but a little backgrounder, based on Singapore Law:

A creditor can file for the debtor’s bankruptcy. Alternatively, the debtor himself can also file for bankruptcy. A petitioning creditor or debtor can begin bankruptcy application, if the debtor

has property in Singapore
resides in Singapore
resides in, or carried on business in Singapore, one year before the bankruptcy application
owes a sum of money exceeding $10,000, payable immediately and enforceable in Singapore
is unable to pay the debt

So technically, the bank is at fault for giving unsecured loans for foreigners, as, per law, they can find it difficult to enforce collection.

High risk, unsecured loans. HIGH RISK is the key !!!

As an example, say, foreigner takes a CC, and doesn't pay.

He looses his job.

IPTO says "YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE COUNTRY"

ICA Says, no job, no pass to stay here ..

MOM says, no job, no pass to stay here.

And no job, no money, then how to live and pay in Singapore ??

What ails now ?? Makes sense ??

As far as the bank is concerned he still owes them money and they dont care if he spent it or someone else.
Ofcourse the OP can file a complaint with police and if the thief is found, OP gets back his money if not, OP is at a loss. Bank has nothing to do with it

And i am not a banker, but .. I thought, Banks are happy to have more loans/debtors, as more loans/debtors=ASSETS .. right ??

And more assets=more bonus for the bankers...

On a related note .. (pardon the sentiments though .. )

http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/04/45 ... ks-nation/

[Wd40]

I am also not a banker
I think banks are interested in quality of the loans given as well and not just the size of the loan book. Banks track NIM(Net Interest Margin) that is the spread they make between loans given out and the cost of the funds. Another very important parameter they track is NPA(Non Performing Assets) They need to declare Assets as non performing, the moment its starts looking that they cant get the money back.

[Steve1960]

I think lack of regulation on credit cards fuels the fire. The total amount of credit I have across all the cards I posses is a pretty large sum of money. If I decided to take them all to the limit then do a runner (which I never would) its a sizeable amount of bad debit.

[Wd40]

OfCourse. Not just credit cards. Look at personal loans. Every bank is willing to offer me close to S$15K in personal loans. I know people who bought property and the downpayment came from personal loans from 7-8 banks put together Ofcourse, they timed it well during the financial crisis and hence they are laughing their way to the bank, literally

There is a reason why the interest rates on Credit Cards and Personal loans are so high. For every 1 in 10 person who does the runner, the other 9 people make up for it by way of interest.

[Steve1960]

Singapore clearly has not learned much from what has happened elsewhere in the world. High debt to GDP ratio and still increasing and encouraging more borrowing. When it goes bang it will not be pretty.

[ecureilx]

I am also not a banker
I think banks are interested in quality of the loans given as well and not just the size of the loan book. Banks track NIM(Net Interest Margin) that is the spread they make between loans given out and the cost of the funds. Another very important parameter they track is NPA(Non Performing Assets) They need to declare Assets as non performing, the moment its starts looking that they cant get the money back.

so remind me again .. how did the Sub-prime mortgage bubble burst ??

.... There is a reason why the interest rates on Credit Cards and Personal loans are so high. For every 1 in 10 person who does the runner, the other 9 people make up for it by way of interest.

so as of now, less than 1 in 10 do a runner .. so .. what happens when it becomes 2 or more doing a runner ?

The bank bosses who took large bonuses, will they return the bonus et al ?

[Wd40]

We are talking about Singapore here

Anyways, off topic, but since we are talking about credit cards, I just got my IRAS tax statement and the amount is S$3800. I would like to pay this by CC, to get the points

Did some research and found that only 2 CCs HSBC and ANZ allow tax payments by CC. I dont have either.

But then did some more googling and found that you can go to AXS machine and pay using DBS credit cards. Thats what I am going to do

SMS mentioned last year that you can open VPost account and pay using CC. I tried, but it doesnt allow to pay using CC for IRAS.

[Steve1960]

Thats very intersting, I was also intending to pay my tax bill by credit card for the points but I don't have any of the cards you advise will work

Also nice to know your tax bill has arrived as once I have paid mine I might try a PR application. Hopefully the bill will arrive soon.

[Wd40]

I got sms that the tax statement is ready. I still didnt get the physical copy, but I logged into IRAS and its available. May be you too can log in and check.

Go to an AXS machine -> Finance section -> then check out if there is an option to pay with your particular CC.