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nutnut
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Postby nutnut » Fri, 17 May 2013 2:14 pm

I never went to Uni.

That's all.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 17 May 2013 2:44 pm

Domestic Engineer, Sanitation Engineer, etc, etc...... :-|

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 17 May 2013 4:17 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Domestic Engineer, Sanitation Engineer, etc, etc...... :-|


and ... airconditioning engineer, pre-sales engineer .. sales engineer .. do they all possess Engineering degrees ?? :P :P

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Postby Hannieroo » Fri, 17 May 2013 4:19 pm

Is that what he meant? Because a degree in software engineering would be an appropriate course of study for a programmer. I think it was quite clear that the engineering background referred to was closer to the traditional qualification. Because if not this entire thread is null and void.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 17 May 2013 4:41 pm

Hannieroo, nothing is cast in stone. Every place has its own demand and supply economics.

In the US for example, qualification is not really a must especially for IT. I have heard several cases of people for example were truck drivers and then changed their profession to Database admnistrators.

However the above is almost impossible in India and some other developing economies, simply because employers are either less open minded, have more choice or any other reason. Basically you must blame the employers in that region for enforcing the degree requirement.

Regarding your point about only software engineer degree holders should do IT. Its true that software engineering degree holders are the best fit and the employers choose them above everyone else(most often) but then the demand is so high that they have to also look at Electronics engineers, Mechanical engineers, Civil engineers etc.

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Postby Hannieroo » Fri, 17 May 2013 5:17 pm

I suppose if it's a boom industry anyone with a decent education and an aptitude for the work should get a shot. But I did rather get the implication that an engineering qualification was desired over an IT based education.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 17 May 2013 5:29 pm

Wd40 wrote:Hannieroo, nothing is cast in stone. Every place has its own demand and supply economics.

In the US for example, qualification is not really a must especially for IT. I have heard several cases of people for example were truck drivers and then changed their profession to Database admnistrators.


One should hesitate to judge a book by it's cover.

I have an uncle who is a high-flying software engineer. He worked as a taxi driver for a year or two last time he was in-between jobs. He never went to university. He has been his country's head of the International Olympic International (IOC) for around 30+ years too.

One of my schoolmates (UK), and an ex-uncle in law (US) were truckers... there's big money in that, from what I see.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 17 May 2013 5:37 pm

The number of B.Sc & M.Sc working on automotive assembly lines in the US would astound you. They make GOOD money. And the unions always pushing for more.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 17 May 2013 6:07 pm

JR8 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Hannieroo, nothing is cast in stone. Every place has its own demand and supply economics.

In the US for example, qualification is not really a must especially for IT. I have heard several cases of people for example were truck drivers and then changed their profession to Database admnistrators.


One should hesitate to judge a book by it's cover.

I have an uncle who is a high-flying software engineer. He worked as a taxi driver for a year or two last time he was in-between jobs. He never went to university. He has been his country's head of the International Olympic International (IOC) for around 30+ years too.

One of my schoolmates (UK), and an ex-uncle in law (US) were truckers... there's big money in that, from what I see.


I agree, I am not demeaning the truck drivers job or anything. I am just saying that in the west(or may be specific countries in the west), its very normal to come from extremely diverse backgrounds, change careers to completely non related directions etc.

In India though, its extremely uncommon. Its extremely tough to even move from different areas within IT. For example once you become a QA analyst is hard to get into development. If you are into BPO for example, its hard to get into coding. Some people have to resort to faking experience just to get over this hurdle.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 17 May 2013 7:29 pm

Wd40 wrote:Excellent post SE,

To add, engineering is also about efficiency. I am an electronics engineer and I will say that if one thing that this degree has given me, is to think of doing stuff with the absolutely least amount of possible resources. I think its the digital electronics and chip design classes, where we are taught to make the most of the limited real estate on the silicon chip.

This is wrong for any kind of rationale based realm including engineering. You should always do things with optimal amount resources and I bet this is what you actually meant. Doing with minimal you would fail on the risk management part.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 17 May 2013 7:48 pm

My uni has or had a whole department Applied Mathematics where almost 100% of its graduates were ending up as sys admins and other IT derivatives.
Is there a market in Singapore for unices sys admins?

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 17 May 2013 10:48 pm

Hannieroo wrote:Is that what he meant? Because a degree in software engineering would be an appropriate course of study for a programmer. I think it was quite clear that the engineering background referred to was closer to the traditional qualification. Because if not this entire thread is null and void.


There is no such thing as software "engineering". All the aforementioned "engineers" use this term to make things sound more glamorous. In some countries it is illegal to use the word "engineer" in a title unless you have been certified... just like doctor or lawyer.

As I said, engineers build. They take discovered physical/chemical principles and ramp them up so that they can be used commercially.

Programmers code. Designers design. That's why there is no degree in software engineering and never will be. There is a degree in computer science but for business IT purposes, a degree in management information systems is better.

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Postby Sergei82 » Fri, 17 May 2013 11:00 pm

x9200 wrote:My uni has or had a whole department Applied Mathematics where almost 100% of its graduates were ending up as sys admins and other IT derivatives.
Is there a market in Singapore for unices sys admins?

My major is Applied Math and I am in IT. Does it have anything to do with former socialist block countries? :)

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 18 May 2013 8:08 am

Sergei82 wrote:
x9200 wrote:My uni has or had a whole department Applied Mathematics where almost 100% of its graduates were ending up as sys admins and other IT derivatives.
Is there a market in Singapore for unices sys admins?

My major is Applied Math and I am in IT. Does it have anything to do with former socialist block countries? :)

I would not be surprised. But besides the AM dept. (rather not popular as combined with hard core fundamental physics) there was a full blown (probably the biggest one in the uni) IT/electronics dept. The guys leaving the AM dept. had probably tremendous problems finding the job (even in the socialistic era) and if you managed to get alone with fundamentals at this abstraction level you don't want to end up as primary school physics teacher.
IMHO, the main reason for existence for the AM/Physics dept. was to provide manpower for screening the students of other departments against their ability to continue education at the technical uni. I reckon at least 50% of the students were gone after the first year (mostly packed with mathematics and physic related subject).

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Postby nakatago » Sat, 18 May 2013 8:40 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
Hannieroo wrote:Is that what he meant? Because a degree in software engineering would be an appropriate course of study for a programmer. I think it was quite clear that the engineering background referred to was closer to the traditional qualification. Because if not this entire thread is null and void.


There is no such thing as software "engineering". All the aforementioned "engineers" use this term to make things sound more glamorous. In some countries it is illegal to use the word "engineer" in a title unless you have been certified... just like doctor or lawyer.

As I said, engineers build. They take discovered physical/chemical principles and ramp them up so that they can be used commercially.

Programmers code. Designers design. That's why there is no degree in software engineering and never will be. There is a degree in computer science but for business IT purposes, a degree in management information systems is better.


My university offered a degree on "management engineering."

Ads for software engineer, though I think is much better than ads for "Software Development Ninja" which asks for a software engineer with superhuman powers--I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP. I didn't think that the Avengers were using a recruitment agency.


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