Local School - need advice on moving my son to one

[therat]

Wah! So complicated man! In India so simple. Everyone studies the same thing until matriculation or class 10th as we call. We do not have this kind of bifurcation so early on. After 10th for pre university you can choose Science, Commerce or Arts.

We dont have life changer exams like PSLE at such tender age. Matriculation is the 1st "Life Changer" kind of exam.

early????

Present Singapore education life changer exam start at primary 4 (10 yrs old)
Exam result will determine you will be taking standard subject or foundation subject.

Then primary 6 (12 yrs old ) will be PSLE, which decide E , NA or NT

Sec 2 result will decide Science, Commerce or Arts class. School will decide base on sec 2 result.

During my time is 9 years old will decide either continue to primary 6 or 8 yrs primary class to take PSLE.
Those graduate at primary 6 can go to secondary either 4 yrs express or 5 yrs normal, then take O level.

8 yrs primary class will straight go to VI (now call ITE) to learn technical course to get NTC 3 then NTC 2. If want , can continue to study at STI (now call ITE Macpherson) ( 2yrs full time) , then can move up to poly (if want). They don't have O level.

At that time ITE has a nick name call "It's The End"

any kids who went to VI will be classified as gone-case , stupid , cannot study , no career, can't earn a living, always get in trouble, etc..

During 1991 , MOE rename VI, STI, NIC, CIC to ITE. Try to reband VI and let it shake off the public bad impression of bad kids and to boost up VI confident.

[Wd40]

Wow, that's very insightful! Thanks. I really think its too early in life for kids to become serious about studies, especially average kids. I was very average until pre university, didn't know what to do with life. But luckily, I was able to get into an engineering college and then I got serious about it. If I was in this Singapore kind of system, I would have gotten into ITE and the end with me.

[katbh]

^+1 Possibly, but then again, maybe your education system allowed you to be an average student where you potential was not tapped earlier.
But then, this is a very pragmatic society......

[Wd40]

Basically, we never had the pressure of exams and we were like kids, playing and having fun all the time, yet with very little studying we managed to get like 60% score and that was enough to get into engineering and get a university degree.

I think in terms of method of teaching there is no difference b/w Singapore and India. i.e. both encourage rote learning and mugging up. The difference is only this bifurcation and putting of additional pressure on students in Singapore to do more of that mugging up.

The end result is in India now, many people have engineering degrees and more than half of them are jobless or unemployable. But atleast the system gives you the chance to get into the final stage. Even if you struggle with your 1st job or say the 1st few years of your career, you can still work hard and catch up with your those brilliant people who were your classmates 10 years ago and after that your education doesn't matter, everyone is an engineer.

But in the Singapore system, if you end up in ITE or Poly, that stays with you for the rest of your life and many companies insist on a bachelors degree for specialized jobs.

[nakatago]

Basically, we never had the pressure of exams and we were like kids, playing and having fun all the time, yet with very little studying we managed to get like 60% score and that was enough to get into engineering and get a university degree.

Dude, bad example. Cue PNGMK or SMS in 3, 2,.....

[therat]

..we managed to get like 60% score and that was enough to get into engineering and get a university degree.

If O level 60%, this result only can go to ITE, not enough score to enroll Poly or JC

If A level 60%, u either retake A Level to get better mark or go oversea. No way for NUS, NTU - engineering, science, Account.

If Poly 60%, need to go oversea. Mark not enough to enter NUS and NTU door.
You cannot have a 'C' in any of your subject. Straight 'B' also not easy.
At my time, poly student need majority subject score "A" , may be 1 or 2 "B" to enter NUS and NTU , engineering. Best.. better no "B"

[katbh]

Times are changing and all over the world education is far more competitive - also remember we are looking back with rose coloured glasses.

[Wd40]

I think this is more of demand supply mismatch in Singapore. If you consider other developed countries, take the UK for example. There are so many colleges. The top tier colleges ofcourse have the best students and they will do well. The bottom rung colleges also are good colleges and have good teachers but the students there are mostly from India and China who were mediocre in the 1st place and hence it may be more difficult for them to get jobs.

Yet, if you have the money and willing to study you can do an MBA/MS in the UK even if you are mediocre. In Singapore, there are not enough colleges and hence they have to introduce this kind of segregation to make sure that the demand is kept in check.

If you ask me, what the right thing to do is? Singapore needs to open a lot of colleges of higher education and then remove all those restrictions at the early stages of their education life and let everyone have a chance to go to university also open up the colleges to foreign students, while giving priority to locals so that if there are not enough locals to fill up colleges, they have foreign students to fill them up and earn money from the. This is exactly what UK and Australia do.

[katbh]

But it is not working in UK and Australia. When does a person need to face up to the realities of life. Yes, P6 is too soon. But should a person do a degree course if they really only have the desire or the capacity to be the worlds best plumber. Why do we place such high regard on tertiary eduction in the first place? I understand why in Singapore - because there are no grunt jobs done by Singaporeans. But their are huge numbers of Australian, Brits and Americans who do degrees that really technically are not required for them to do the jobs that they end up doing. What is wrong with being a great craftsman without a degree?

[Wd40]

I agree with the part where you say "A degree shouldnt be done for the sake of it" but that is a different topic.

In the Singaporean context we have students denied entry to university because they are not whiz kids. I mean in any other country if you score 70% you are good and you get to go to university but not here. Also if you are rich you can migrate to another country to go to university, just like Therat mentioned, but if you are poor, you cannot, that is kind of unfair and doesnt sound like a 1st world developed country. No wonder locals here prefer Australia so much, many go there for higher studies and later find it a better place.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Wd, there are lots in the sandwich class in the US that have the grades, but not the income, too much for freebees and not enough to either avoid student loans or unable to qualify for student loans. They end up with good grades but are unable to take advantage of a higher education either.

OH, while I don't necessarily believe it, last I heard, the US is 1st World and not just a developing country like Singapore. Singapore has a long way to go before it will ever be considered 1st world. The infrastructure is, but that's all.

[Wd40]

SMS, yeah point taken. But the UK and Australia both heavily subsidize fees for locals and the its the international students fees that actually form the bulk of the revenue for the colleges. Singapore too follows the same, locals pay only a fraction compared to foreigners at NUS, NTU etc and thats a very viable solution.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The US is the same. All universities do it as it's the only way they can keep seats open for their citizens. Or they can impose number restrictions like Singapore does at around 15% of the intake cohort,

[movingtospore]

I think this is more of demand supply mismatch in Singapore. If you consider other developed countries, take the UK for example. There are so many colleges. The top tier colleges ofcourse have the best students and they will do well. The bottom rung colleges also are good colleges and have good teachers but the students there are mostly from India and China who were mediocre in the 1st place and hence it may be more difficult for them to get jobs.

Yet, if you have the money and willing to study you can do an MBA/MS in the UK even if you are mediocre. In Singapore, there are not enough colleges and hence they have to introduce this kind of segregation to make sure that the demand is kept in check.

If you ask me, what the right thing to do is? Singapore needs to open a lot of colleges of higher education and then remove all those restrictions at the early stages of their education life and let everyone have a chance to go to university also open up the colleges to foreign students, while giving priority to locals so that if there are not enough locals to fill up colleges, they have foreign students to fill them up and earn money from the. This is exactly what UK and Australia do.

You know, I'm not sure about that, in Singapore or first world countries for that matter. Who would employ all those shiny graduates? There are already enough of the younger local generation whining they don't get the best jobs...

It would seem to me, they actually need more trades etc. Lord have you ever tried to get something fixed here? Cheap but you're better of fixing it yourself to get it truly "fixed."

[Wd40]

I think this is more of demand supply mismatch in Singapore. If you consider other developed countries, take the UK for example. There are so many colleges. The top tier colleges ofcourse have the best students and they will do well. The bottom rung colleges also are good colleges and have good teachers but the students there are mostly from India and China who were mediocre in the 1st place and hence it may be more difficult for them to get jobs.

Yet, if you have the money and willing to study you can do an MBA/MS in the UK even if you are mediocre. In Singapore, there are not enough colleges and hence they have to introduce this kind of segregation to make sure that the demand is kept in check.

If you ask me, what the right thing to do is? Singapore needs to open a lot of colleges of higher education and then remove all those restrictions at the early stages of their education life and let everyone have a chance to go to university also open up the colleges to foreign students, while giving priority to locals so that if there are not enough locals to fill up colleges, they have foreign students to fill them up and earn money from the. This is exactly what UK and Australia do.

You know, I'm not sure about that, in Singapore or first world countries for that matter. Who would employ all those shiny graduates? There are already enough of the younger local generation whining they don't get the best jobs...

It would seem to me, they actually need more trades etc. Lord have you ever tried to get something fixed here? Cheap but you're better of fixing it yourself to get it truly "fixed."

I am not saying every Tom, Dick and Harry should be able to get a degree. I am just saying the playing field should be leveled. The barrier set for university degree in Singapore is extremely high, relative to other countries. Thats all.

This may be unrelated but have a look at this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

Singapore is ranked at 53! Being a city state and no rural population, I would have imagined Singapore at No 1.